Uni students... risking the wrath of mn..

[redgin]

Firstly, I have had 2 children go through uni and out the other side and I fully understand the emotional and financial aspects.

But

They leave home, expect to be treated as adults (rightly) and have their first taste of independence. After a summer debating the risks of going to uni this year in the middle of a pandemic why are they surprised they have to isolate in their rented accommodation like anyone else? That they have to follow the rules like the rest of the law abiding?

IMO they chose to go, they couldn't have expected normal, so get on with it.

They ARE customers. They SHOULD be satisfied with their experience.

Perhaps it would be wiser to ask them after three or four years, rather than a week.

@SueEllenMishke as it happens I have worked at universities but that’s Not the point. I’m talking about the student experience and that needs to be taken seriously. I might think I’m the best teacher in the world but if my students don’t think so I’m not am I. And especially not if they’re paying 9 grand

@Bwitch yes I would but that doesn’t negate what they’re saying a week in. If it’s been a rubbish week it will still have been rubbish even if it gets better. And universities need to learn from that and improve. I’ve just carried out a survey amongst students at my school 4 weeks in and I am all ears. It wouldn’t occur to me to suggest I knew better or I don’t need to listen when of course I don’t know what their experience is like for them.

Very impressed with daughter's Uni who warned them about isolation and told them to bring provisions etc before they arrived. I think being prepared made a big difference to the students' attitudes. Some Uni's seem to have suddenly sprung it on students. 2 weeks is not a long time in the greater scheme off things. Also don't understand why whole cohorts being isolated rather than particular colleges/ roomies/ households? Does not seem well thought through.

All universities should have made the decision one made in June to be online only for lectures and tutorials etc, at least for this term. So students could choose to remain at home if they wished.

I’m pretty pissed off im paying for rent etc for my daughter and 50% of her course is online she would have been better off staying at home in my opinion

as it happens I have worked at universities but that’s Not the point. I’m talking about the student experience and that needs to be taken seriously. I might think I’m the best teacher in the world but if my students don’t think so I’m not am I. And especially not if they’re paying 9 grand

If you have worked at a university recently you will know how seriously student satisfaction is taken.
First year students haven't had enough teaching to make a sound judgement yet. For many universities term only started yesterday.

If you had worked at a university recently you wouldn't be trotting out 'they're paying 9k fees for nothing' argument as you would know it is far more complex and nuanced than that and you would know the politics behind the fees system.
If you had worked at a university recently you would be displaying far more empathy towards academics and would appreciate the amount of work and effort that is taking place right now.

You would also be directing your wrath at the government and not the universities as it them that have caused this shit show - leaving universities to take the balme.

@nosswith

All universities should have made the decision one made in June to be online only for lectures and tutorials etc, at least for this term. So students could choose to remain at home if they wished.

The government told us to open and offer as much f2f teaching as we could. We spent months planning how we could do that in a socially distanced way then A level results happened and the government told us to take all students we'd made offers to which well and truly fucked up all those carefully thought out plans.

@SueEllenMishke - give up.............no one is listening. they'll just blame unis and keep voting for the establishment

'f you have worked at a university recently you will know how seriously student satisfaction is taken.'

However, if you have turned on the tv or opened a paper recently or if you had a child at university you will know that students are not satisfied.

'First year students haven't had enough teaching to make a sound judgement yet. For many universities term only started yesterday.'

That's extremely patronising. My students, who are younger, are perfectly capable of judging the quality of a single lesson and how much they've learned in it. This attitude confirms my suspicions. Lecturers need to be more receptive to feedback and stop making assumptions about what students think, feel, are learning.

'If you had worked at a university recently you wouldn't be trotting out 'they're paying 9k fees for nothing' argument as you would know it is far more complex and nuanced than that and you would know the politics behind the fees system.'

Again, extremely patronising. I have worked in universities, I currently work in schools. And I have a daughter who has just started in university. I am not saying they're paying for nothing. I am saying the 9k is extremely poor value right now for an arts student. Whether or not you personally agree, this is what many students are thinking right now. You ignore that at your peril.

If you had worked at a university recently you would be displaying far more empathy towards academics and would appreciate the amount of work and effort that is taking place right now.

'You would also be directing your wrath at the government and not the universities as it them that have caused this shit show - leaving universities to take the balme.'

I have a lot of contempt for the govt but that doesn't mean I'm wrong to say that universities should and could and must do more to debate and clarify and justify what they provide to their students.

Being so defensive/ hostile does not help your case.

I have sought and acted on student feedback a couple of weeks into term. And teachers in schools have much more to complain about than lecturers. Teaching classes of 30 with no masks, visors and pretending that year groups of 150+ are 'bubbles' while colleagues and students are dropping like flies is no joke. But I am here for the students and I don't trivialise or dismiss their feedback. And secondary education is compulsory and free. HE students and their families are making enormous sacrifices. They damn well should be listened to and their opinions respected.

@nostaples - we also dont trivialise feedback...from our students

we just care as much about feedback from random people off the internet

academics care....I have spent lots of time improving my teaching, counselling students regarding last spring's disaster when lots didnt know what to do, where to go etc.......

but if govt refuses to bail out, then messes up a'levels, the commands unis accept everyone, then messes up testing and encourages everyone to go out in august - take it to the government and not academics.

cos trust me - all academics will spend lots of time making sure their tutees and students are ok. because when students don't turn to their families, they turn to us.

'we just care as much about feedback from random people off the internet'

Have you turned on the telly or opened a paper lately? FFS

i am not starting teaching till next week.....

what you are talking about is feedback regarding government measures and senior university management responses to the government's position

take it to them

www.google.co.uk/search?q=university+students+locked+in&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgt9T_jY_sAhXdRxUIHQyuCnEQ_AUoAXoECAsQAw&biw=1366&bih=603#imgrc=BnEEvyZEBxoikM

@zurich09 you are coming across as hostile and resistant to feedback which is exactly the problem I'm raising.

My daughter has been at university for a while. I have many ex students at university.

The press is full of students who are complaining about the whole experience, including the quality of the tuition.

And this is not just this year.

am resistant to taking feedback about a system that was not of our making...i agree the system isnt working but blame the government/v senior uni mangement

inews.co.uk/news/education/students-tuition-fees-refund-university-watchdog-complaints-lockdown-666332

One in 3 students complaining about poor value for money in 2013!! www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22484419

[quote zurich09]@SueEllenMishke - give up.............no one is listening. they'll just blame unis and keep voting for the establishment[/quote]
I know. It's just so frustrating to hear people with limited knowledge tell me how I should be doing my job.
I would never be so arrogant ......

@zurich09 I am absolutely not a fan of the govt or its policies but that is such a cop out.

As a teacher in schools I do not wash my hands of students' complaints on the basis that it's all the government's fault. Can you imagine?

It is supremely arrogant and totally unhelpful to your own careers to act as though you do not need to listen to students or gauge their opinion and to wash your hands of responsibility for their experience.

Completely disagree.

First year at uni is really challenging in loads of ways for many people. I really struggled during mine. It's not all carefree getting hammered. It's lonely, isolating and stressful, worrying about making friends and finding a 'group', away from everything familiar. I really feel for them.

Also I was living in a flat with 7 other people who were for the most part, an absolute horror to live with. The only breather was when they were out of the flat.

It honestly sounds like a living hell and I would be astounded if there weren't some tragic consequences as a result

I'm assuming I'm the person with 'limited knowledge'.

Honestly, I have a great deal of sympathy for university lecturers. As I've said, I've been one as was my father for his whole life. I also have a huge amount of knowledge about education from nursery to phd level.

Assuming you are above feedback or have no responsibility is not conducive to good teaching.

@nostaples - what does that mean value for money??? 9k - it does cost 9k to educate them - in fact, it often costs more.

perceived value for money - well no - students are being asked to shoulder a massive debt (although they always did through normal taxation) in order to get an admin job. but realistically the UK is quite a low skilled country that doesnt invest much into its young people. But once lots of kids have adegree - it devalues a degree but with lfew alternatives, kids have no choice but to do it.

a degree is an entry paper into jobs - thats the value of a social science/arts/humanities degree. no they do not always have a value beyond serving as a mechanism for employers to sort out those who are bright or the right sort from the rest. as more and more people get this paper - the lower the rewards. but the problem is not with the degree, but the economy, system etc.