Uni students... risking the wrath of mn..

[redgin]

Firstly, I have had 2 children go through uni and out the other side and I fully understand the emotional and financial aspects.

But

They leave home, expect to be treated as adults (rightly) and have their first taste of independence. After a summer debating the risks of going to uni this year in the middle of a pandemic why are they surprised they have to isolate in their rented accommodation like anyone else? That they have to follow the rules like the rest of the law abiding?

IMO they chose to go, they couldn't have expected normal, so get on with it.

@nostaples

OK, so nobody has an explanation.

Erm .... yeah we've just explained it to you. If you want the science or logic behind the guidelines then you'll have to speak to the government about that.

But you can see that exacerbates the problem. Is it that the health and lives of HE colleagues are considered more important? Is it that the education of HE students is valued less? Is it for a scientific reason - to do with risks of transmission (even when college teachers will have been teaching 30 students only a couple of months earlier)?

' yeah we've just explained it to you.'

No you haven't.

My starting point is that the rules were different. You've just echoed that without explaining it.

It's your patronising attitude that implies other people (me) are stupid while not actually demonstrating any additional knowledge yourself that is quite difficult to take.

This semester at least should have been online and that directive should have come from the govt, the DofE and the universities. It's not the fault of the students. All the proper grown ups that should have been on top of this but youd rather blame 17 year olds.

'you'll have to speak to the government about that'

Oh lord and passing the buck again. By all means say you don't know but don't patronise me and suggest I'm asking a stupid question at the same time.

I'm sure you're actually a very nice person but I am v v glad I'm not a student of yours.

Do you blame the government if you overcook the tea as well?

No, your starting point nostaples was that HE lecturers weren’t doing any F2F teaching. That’s not the case.

@nostaples

But you can see that exacerbates the problem. Is it that the health and lives of HE colleagues are considered more important? Is it that the education of HE students is valued less? Is it for a scientific reason - to do with risks of transmission (even when college teachers will have been teaching 30 students only a couple of months earlier)?

Again, we can't answer that. It's not our fault that the government has issued different guidance to us. We shouldn't be blamed for that.

I would maybe hazard a guess at the age of students and the supposed difference between adult and child transmission but I'm not a scientist. I work in an education faculty!

For what it's worth I think schools and teachers are doing an amazing job.

I'm not blaming you @SueEllenMishke What is your problem?

Your defensiveness is definitely going to be a barrier to improvement in your teaching. As is your patronising response to any sort of question.

@nostaples

'you'll have to speak to the government about that'

Oh lord and passing the buck again. By all means say you don't know but don't patronise me and suggest I'm asking a stupid question at the same time.

I'm sure you're actually a very nice person but I am v v glad I'm not a student of yours.

Again with the personal insults ..... What do you want us to say. Universities didn't write the guidance the government did. Therefore it's up to them to explain it.

Your defensiveness is definitely going to be a barrier to improvement in your teaching. As is your patronising response to any sort of question.

ODFOD

@nostaples

I'm not blaming you *@SueEllenMishke* What is your problem?

Your defensiveness is definitely going to be a barrier to improvement in your teaching. As is your patronising response to any sort of question.

You just can't stop with the personal insults can you?

@SueEllenMishke like I said it's OK to say you don't know without the patronising comments.

@SueEllenMishke hypocrisy much? You told me my knowledge was limited and implied I was lying.

@nostaples - because parents need to go out and work and schools are enabling that to happen. it's not for educational but economic reasons. thats the difference! govt doesnt need unis to be open for adults to go out to work but they need schools to open for that to happen

[quote nostaples]@SueEllenMishke like I said it's OK to say you don't know without the patronising comments.[/quote]
There's only one person coming across as patronising right now.

You asked why no f2f teaching was happening, I explained it was but also why some is online .... I don't know what else you want but I suspect you're just spoiling for a fight now. No matter how reasonable my response is you won't acknowledge it 🤷🏼‍♀️

@zurich09 do you really think so? In that scenario school teachers are being put at greater risk than any other workers I would have thought since they're not even allowed masks and are in close proximity with 30+ and colleagues. Realistically, it's a matter of time before a teacher dies of it and then there will be an outcry.

@nostaples - or to make it even simpler:

schools need to teach to face to face to save Pret
unis should be teaching online to save Grannies
thus fulfilling the two societal directives that have been put forward by this government.

the complicated thing is that unis felt that they were actually now Pret and therefore needed f2f...whilst schools found that grannies are often needed to help out with the kids...............and hence the picture got a bit more complicated. The government having set up quite a nice neat and simple directive got all confused and tried to blame everyone for messing it all up

@nostaples - well yes but without teachers what happens to Pret

@nostaples teachers are not at greater risk than medics or careworkers (the former are more protected than the latter hence fewer deaths)...but are you frontline fodder to help save the economy ....well yes...what did you think you were doing.

now i dont think that saving the economy is bad - but if there was any other way of providing parents with childcare without the additional funds and safer than schools -you'd all be online now. but there isnt - so you arent and will be kept open for as long as possible

pedagogy really has little to do with that

@zurich09 I think you have a point and I am very anti this government but there must also be a recognition of the importance of education to the life chances of young peopel.

yes and for that the government should have sorted out test and trace, allowed students to repeat a year and not have this bat shit crazy idea that they can do the same amount of material in a lot less time during a pandemic, sorted out free school meals without having to have sports personalities do it for them, not have the A'levels fiasco need I go on etc............

I thin kids need structure, socialisation and education - i really do but the world is not about that anymore. hence the news stories neatly went from the schools fiasco to the universities fiasco....they are the same fiasco

Yes, I've found that this year some of the main news stories have directly affected me for the first time: I'm a teacher and both my children were due to do public exams this year and now one is at university. I'd quite like to go back to being invisible to the media!

The guidance for HE is Scotland is 2m social distancing on campus, but 1m in hospitality venues. It doesn't make sense, but that is the law and University's have to comply with the law. The sector lobbied hard to reduce the 2m rule in order to facilitate more face to face - even 1.5m would have made a major difference for timetabling, but was not successful. So that means outbreaks are happening as a result of social contact, in halls and hospitlity venues, not on campus where the 2m is in place. It is a mess of the Scottish Government's making. I don't know what the siutation is in England and Wales.

A couple of socially related outbreaks in Wales, otherwise not too bad as far as I know. Most of the local authorities in Wales are under lockdown now anyway.