Honestly, if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[SAHMparanoia]

.....or dad!

Hi,

Just that really. Have been a SAHM for a long time (over a decade) and whereas I do like the idea of going back to work - starting my own business maybe at some point, I do definitely feel a lot of pressure and judgements from other women.

I think there probably is an element of internalised judgement too. I often ask myself if it's wrong that I don't contribute anything to the family money pot, but then I obviously contribute in many other ways that my DP doesn't have time for.

If my DP didn't earn good money, I wouldn't be able to choose, so I understand that I am fortunate in that sense, but I do feel a bit like I don't "fit" anywhere now.

I don't know if that's because I genuinely want to get back to work for myself or for others. I get genuinely anxious, borderline embarrassed, when people ask what I do. There have been plenty of times my reply has been met by raised eyebrows and questions such as, "god, aren't you bored?".

I find myself almost excusing and explaining my choice, which I HATE! I shouldn't have to do that. I know I don't have to, but I feel almost cornered sometimes.

So anyway, if you're a working parent, do you look at women like me judge? Or are you also a SAHM and do feel judged?

It doesn't worry me if I get judged. I am confident for me and my family I have made the right choice, so why would I listen to strangers. I think regardless of some peoples choices, they feel judged regardless, a few of my working parents feel judged because "they aren't there" and some SAHP feel judged because they "gave up independence". Don't allow it, just do what's right for you.

I don't however understand people who can't comprehend how to fill a day without a job, as if, because you don't work you would be bored. I once got told only boring people get bored. There is so much to do and enjoy life outside of work. If people couldn't image how to keep busy, that strikes me as strange.

I also wonder how people only feel they have a personality, fulfilled relationship or "self" if they are in an employed role, it's quite sad. Surely you are you regardless. This only stands up if all you have to talk about anyway is your job or colleagues, which I don't know 1 person who does, it just seems to be a MN thing.

I love being a SAHP and we would never have had children if that was not an option for us, I have friends who would rather stick hot pokers in their eyes. They completely understand I get to spend much more time with our son than they do and I get to choose how busy we are and I am taking a risk of not getting back into my profession, I am changing anyway , but in general I mean.

I don't judge them at all but I don't really like the only SAHM I know....it's nothing to do with her being a SAHM though 😂

I've been a SAHM for 6 months now on furlough and now being made redundant. I've cherished the time I've had with my little pre schooler but definitely don't want to be a SAHM. I only worked three days so I found it was a lovely balance of both actually. I'm probably looking at now working 4 days with a new job which makes me a bit sad!

I also wonder how people only feel they have a personality, fulfilled relationship or "self" if they are in an employed role, it's quite sad. Surely you are you regardless. This only stands up if all you have to talk about anyway is your job or colleagues, which I don't know 1 person who does, it just seems to be a MN thing

I think many people who love their profession would feel like part of them was missing if they weren't doing it. It's not sad. In fact, it's only on here that I hear anyone talking about how someone must be 'sad' for loving what they do.

I could have many employed jobs and feel like part of me was missing, or I could spend a lot of time volunteering with teenagers and feel totally fulfilled. It's not 'sad' to have something I enjoy doing. I enjoy teaching teenagers and that's part of me.

If you genuinely think it is 'sad' for people to genuinely enjoy what they do or they somehow are lacking in personality for attaching value to something they enjoy doing then that says more about you than people who are happy getting on with what they enjoy in life.

DH has done golf and skiing trips with friends and I’ve done spa breaks. DH and I together, without DC’s have gone on holidays for special occasions such as our 40th birthdays and last year our silver wedding. Happy parents and happy DC’s.

Sounds like a nice balance you have there. No judgement.

The way I read the @justfinefornow post her mother chose to take full holidays separately from her family rather than breaks, and I assumed she didn't partake in holidays with the children: "my mother escaped motherhood by working, took holidays when we were at school..."
I may have got the wrong end of the stick.

I think many people who love their profession would feel like part of them was missing if they weren't doing it. It's not sad. In fact, it's only on here that I hear anyone talking about how someone must be 'sad' for loving what they do.

I see, Absolutely misquoting what I said. I didn't say for someone who "loved" their job, I said if they only feel they have a personality, fulfilled relationship or "self" if they have an employed role. I think it truly lovely when people are passionate and love their job.

I could have many employed jobs and feel like part of me was missing, or I could spend a lot of time volunteering with teenagers and feel totally fulfilled. It's not 'sad' to have something I enjoy doing. I enjoy teaching teenagers and that's part of me.

Again, absolutely nothing to do with what I said if you "enjoy" your job, I think that's great, but again no relevance to my point.

If you genuinely think it is 'sad' for people to genuinely enjoy what they do or they somehow are lacking in personality for attaching value to something they enjoy doing then that says more about you than people who are happy getting on with what they enjoy in life.

Again. Your statement doesn't include me, as its stating nothing of what I said. I never said I think it's sad for someone to enjoy their job, I said it's sad if they only feel they have a personality, fulfilled relationship or 'self" if they have an employed role.

Bourbonbiccy
Yes, but for many of us our 'employed role' IS something we are passionate about. So yes, I would feel part of me was missing if I wasn't doing my employed role.

Why do some women have a burning need to call each other sad? I can only conclude it's either a desire to feel better than others or insecurities.

It's just as unpleasant to decide women are sad for finding part of their fulfilment in their job as it would be for others to say 'i think it's really sad if people only find they're happy and have personality based on the fact they run a household'.

It's just as judgey to say This only stands up if all you have to talk about anyway is your job or colleagues, which I don't know 1 person who does as it would be to say 'it only stands up if all you have to talk about anyway is domestic chores and what after school clubs your children do'.

I say potato and you think I said banana.
classic.

@MrsNotNice Aww, thank you

Yes, but for many of us our 'employed role' IS something we are passionate about. So yes, I would feel part of me was missing if I wasn't doing my employed role.

Which I already said, I think it's brilliant when people are passionate about what they do and feel like it's part of them. What I said (again) was if a person thought they only had a personality, fullfilled relationship or "self" from an employed role.

Why do some women have a burning need to call each other sad? I can only conclude it's either a desire to feel better than others or insecurities

Absolutely to name call or drag another down would be wrong. I said I found it sad, the situation not the person

It's just as unpleasant to decide women are sad for finding part of their fulfilment in their job as it would be for others to say 'i think it's really sad if people only find they're happy and have personality based on the fact they run a household'.

That indeed would be unpleasant to say someone who found there job fulfilling sad, I didn't say that so I'm assumed not aimed at me.

I also would find it sad if people only found their personality, fullfilled relationship and "self" by a role, be it employed or not. There is more to a person than a role, it takes lots of aspects to form a person not just a role.

It's just as judgey to say This only stands up if all you have to talk about anyway is your job or colleagues, which I don't know 1 person who does as it would be to say 'it only stands up if all you have to talk about anyway is domestic chores and what after school clubs your children do'.

Exactly that, again why would you only have a role to talk about. I suppose the only difference might be the children are a joint interest if you talk to your partner about them, but yes your friends don't just want to here about your role, employed it not, do they.

No.
When my kids were at school I knew a lot of SAHMs (very rich area) and we didn’t have much in common, but I didn’t worry about their choices.
Some of them seemed obsessed with mine and were constantly waiting for my kids to go bad/unhappy/failures ... still waiting ladies ...

Bourbonbiccy
So out of interest, how many people have actually said they ONLY feel like they have any purpose or personality if they have a job? How many people have said that employment is their 'only' sense of self?

Or was it just silly hyperbole designed to have a pop at women who find enjoyment and fulfilment by working out of the home and then when that undertone is picked up on the focus is 'but I said only...'?

I'm yet to have met anyone in life who claims their 'only' sense of self/purpose/personality is the job they're employed so it'd be nice to know where all these 'sad' people exist, or it could just be yet another one of the caricatures that get thrown around on SAHP/WOHP threads.

@Devlesko

Hey, I never said sheeple and I didn't mean that either. I just think a lot of people think like this and it's not the only way to live.

Is it really difficult to understand that some people need very little money for their lifestyle choice and that both parents working isn't necessary for them?

Yes but presumably you do need some money, unless you have a completely self-sufficient small holding with a windmill/solar power? Even if you don’t need much money? So either your spouse is working for that money while you’re “just being” or you’ve inherited it or you’re on benefits.

My mum was disabled and couldn’t work. She told me never to be solely reliant on someone else’s salary, and I never will be, barring an illness or disability that renders me unable to work. I don’t “identify as my occupation” but I do derive self-respect from knowing I’m able to support myself.

I don't judge. I do however worry for friends who are financially vulnerable if their marriage goes up shit creek and have chosen to go back to work, despite not ‘needing’ my wage, to ensure I have that independence if I need it. I also worked damn hard at university and to get where I am and I don’t see why I should then give that up as soon as i’m a mum ☺️

I definitely don't judge SAH parents. I wanted to be a SAHM. I've settled on part time, which is a good balance for me actually. But I'm not really judgey about parenting in general.

LolaSmiles I'm pretty sure Bourbon was responding to a PP who claimed that everyone needs to have a job or volunteer outside of the house or they'd have no personality. You can see it a few posts up.

I must admit, I don’t relate to people who say they would get bored if they didn’t work. I absolutely could fill my days if I was a SAHM of a school-aged child, I can’t imagine being bored! Certainly when DH and I retire I can think of a billion things we’ll want to do together.

Quite honestly, I do judge SAHP of school aged children. I really don't understand how a person can be fulfilled by cleaning and life admin, as so many seem to be.

Not exactly as I can completely get that for some people the costs of childcare mean that working isn't worth it. But if I'm honest I don't view them as contributing to the household finances in the same way as the working parent is.

Also the statement "full time Mummy" really grinds my gears. I'm a 'full time Mummy' too it's just I work too.

And it annoys me when SAHM's complain about being 'busy' because they have a playdate or something and the need to buy groceries on the same day or similar. It is not comparable to trying to work full-time and fit all the parenting / household stuff in as well. Ditto SAHM's who try to make out their 'business' selling some Avon crap or diet shakes etc is somehow equivalent to having a 'real' job.

I'm actually fairly proud of not judging working parents, nor SAHP.

I understand we all have our own paths, our own priorities, our own values, our own circumstances.

Both have their own sacrifices, threats, and concerns.

I'm working really hard at not getting defensive, or feeling judged, because I've worked with my own set of circumstances, for the best interests of our family.

No I don't judge anyone for being a SAHM. I would really love to be able to do it.

GrouchyKiwi
You mean this one?

My mum was a stay at home mum and I'm now 30. She still doesn't work and has no friends or hobbies.
Is bored and depressed at home.
I think everyone needs something, even if it's volunteering or a part time job. Just for having a bit of socialisation and life outside of house and kids.
You end up with no personality otherwise
?

I didn't take this as them saying you have no personality if you don't have a job, and more that this posters mum had no job, no friends, no hobbies and that everyone needs something for themselves beyond the home.

They're probably right. Whilst I disagree they'd have no personality, someone without any friends, without any hobbies, without any interests, without a job/volunteerinh, without any life beyond their house is probably unlikely to be that interesting to talk to.

Whereas if someone has a bit of a life for themselves and interests outside the home then they're probably going to be much more rounded and interesting.

If I think about my mum friends. They're all interesting women with their own interests and hobbies, some SAH and others WOH. The mums I met at baby groups who I didn't gel with were ones who seemingly had no interests or hobbies and no life beyond babies and the house.

I don't judge. Although I had one friend complain that the job centre were shocking wanting her to look for work because she wanted to stay at home and be a proper mum. It seems I'm judged for being a working mum.

So out of interest, how many people have actually said they ONLY feel like they have any purpose or personality if they have a job? How many people have said that employment is their 'only' sense of self?

There are people on here who constantly say you have no personality, lose yourself, your DH will run off with someone because you are a SAHP. Read the threads. On this thread they have said you have no "purpose" or "personality"

Or was it just silly hyperbole designed to have a pop at women who find enjoyment and fulfilment by working out of the home and then when that undertone is picked up on the focus is 'but I said only...'?

Absolutely not hyperbole, not on my side, I made a clear comment that you misinterpreted (as has been proven) and jumped on, wrongly.

I'm yet to have met anyone in life who claims their 'only' sense of self/purpose/personality is the job they're employed so it'd be nice to know where all these 'sad' people exist, or it could just be yet another one of the caricatures that get thrown around on SAHP/WOHP threads

Again, misquoting me, again i will correct you. I never claimed these people to be sad. My post was in response to the caricature that gets thrown around that if you are a SAHP you have no conversation, personality or loose your "self" my response was if that (role) is all you base your "self" on then this is a sad situation.

GrouchyKiwi, yes it was that sort of caricature I was responding too.

I don't judge you, just envious I don't have the choice to do that