Honestly, if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[SAHMparanoia]

.....or dad!

Hi,

Just that really. Have been a SAHM for a long time (over a decade) and whereas I do like the idea of going back to work - starting my own business maybe at some point, I do definitely feel a lot of pressure and judgements from other women.

I think there probably is an element of internalised judgement too. I often ask myself if it's wrong that I don't contribute anything to the family money pot, but then I obviously contribute in many other ways that my DP doesn't have time for.

If my DP didn't earn good money, I wouldn't be able to choose, so I understand that I am fortunate in that sense, but I do feel a bit like I don't "fit" anywhere now.

I don't know if that's because I genuinely want to get back to work for myself or for others. I get genuinely anxious, borderline embarrassed, when people ask what I do. There have been plenty of times my reply has been met by raised eyebrows and questions such as, "god, aren't you bored?".

I find myself almost excusing and explaining my choice, which I HATE! I shouldn't have to do that. I know I don't have to, but I feel almost cornered sometimes.

So anyway, if you're a working parent, do you look at women like me judge? Or are you also a SAHM and do feel judged?

I don’t judge, but I do think that people who have teenage children aren’t ‘stay at home parents’, they’re just people who choose not to work.

I don't judge except to in the rare cases when a SAHP has told me how busy and hectic their life is having to look after their entirely normal house, take their DC to school and put in time at the gym, usually accompanied by a tinkly laugh. Fortunately, most people I know have rather more self-awareness than that.

If anything, I feel a bit envious of parents who can afford not to work.

I do. I fundamentally believe that everyone who is able should be economically active. This is how we can create a better and more equal society for all.

I don't know any sahms but I am slightly envious that I'm working and studying and sorting the kids and house out. However I know I wouldn't be suited to a sahm, it doesn't stop me wishing I could win the lottery and give up work.

I am a working mum and I would say I judge working mums more than sahm.

Crap of me to say but ideally everybody would choose what they would prefer to do and do it but money just does not allow sometimes.

I feel my children miss out more when I’m a working mum. I was far better when on maternity for a year.

SAHParent with kids at home in the day, or SAHP with the day to themselves?

The former; no, that's a job in itself.

The latter; off their own income, without recourse to public funds? No.

Those who have kids in school, and who can work, but prefer public fund income; yes, I do judge.

No judgement here. Everyone should be able to structure their families how they see fit.

However, it should be an informed decision and whatever decision is made they need to be willing to live with the consequences.

For example, I dislike it when people insist that having DC is a bigger commitment than marriage, marriage is just a piece of paper, their mates got divorced and they're stil strong with DP... So they quit their job, be a SAHP and life goes on, until the relationship ends. Then they decide that actually they quite like the sound of the rights that come with marriage so they think the law should be changed to automatically give spousal rights to any cohabiting couple. Those people don't want to live with the consequences of their choices and would sooner see thousands of people lose the right to keep their assets separate than organise their own affairs properly. It's that sort of attitude that I judge.

No I don't judge... I have been on both sides of the coin and just think everyone is meant to live their life in a certain way at any given point in time.

I have absolutely no judgement whatsoever around how people finance their lives and whether they work, doing what, how hard etc. Different strokes etc.

I do worry about women who rely on the good will of their husband for economic security, though. He could be a ‘good guy’ for 20 years and then it all goes wrong and you’re a middle aged woman with little employment history and a much reduced ability to support yourself.

I personally could never put myself in that situation long term.

@justfinefornow I had an “amazing job” (well, two - corporate law and senior civil service) before I became a teacher. I hated both, despite the perceived prestige. My point is that for many people, being a colleague and a worker is important. I’m not sure I could feel the same pleasure in myself if I had no purpose other than “mother/wife” (I never have been and never will be a wife). But maybe some people do find fulfilment in being mother/wife despite their education and economic potential. I’d be interested to see what they would have done if they had been forced to work for survival reasons when their DS1 was less than one yea old though.

The only thing I judge on is if they’re constantly moaning. One friend at a toddler group just before Christmas last year said she was ‘so stressed’ with preparing for Christmas.
I just stared blankly at her.... her children were both in nursery 2 days a week as well.
Try preparing for Christmas, working full time shift work, and all the mental load.
I honestly don’t understand it.

I’m not sure I’d say I judge but I don’t think it’s an especially wise economic decision to be utterly reliant on someone else’s income. I mean, I’m part time and DH earns more than me and if we split up or god forbid, he died, I’d be a lot poorer, but I do have a professional role and could increase my hours if necessary. If you’ve been out of the workforce for years, that would be a lot harder.

In saying that, families with one SAHP probably have found school closures less stressful than families with both parents working. But global pandemics are considerably rarer than family breakdowns!

Never judge anyone and very envious that you have the kind of marriage that you can do that. My ds has been in childcare since he was 7 months old. I have never spent as much time with him as I have during lockdown. Xx

Not at all! I respect everyone's decision and admire a SAHM

@MrsSchadenfreude, ‘Bit of volunteering’ is a bit condescending. Volunteers keep the wheels turning in many vital services and areas that are undervalued by our economy at all sorts of levels. Why is it a waste to use your education and training for the benefit of your community and wider society like this? Plus going any kind of further education or professional training doesn’t automatically commit you to doing they fit the rest of your life. Is any kind of career change a waste of what you have done previously?

Not exactly,
I have been in both situations a full time SAHM and a full time working out of the home mum.
I have no issue or judgement on which anyone else chooses to do, but I have issue and judge those that have kids and do nothing with them and don't prioritise their needs.
A few examples,
SAHD- parks kid in front of the TV all day, doesn't attend any groups, is a bit feckless and useless he's be better off working and the kid in childcare engaging with others.
Working Mum who's kids feet bleed and blister on school trip that had lots of walking as shoes way too small (this wasn't a money issue)
Working Mum & Dad who take their kid to mother in law every Saturday for a sleepover so they can rest. That kid barely sees his parents.
SAHM too busy building her "business" (pyramid scheme) online that she joked she'd forgotten to feed her kid lunch and dinner was toast.
I can't stand useless parents, those that dont try, those that neglect basic needs.
Whether you work on or out the home, make or female this last few moths have really shown me those who seemingly give no shits about their children's welfare.

I do judge some a bit yeah. We all judge others a bit if we were to be honest. I think what I find a bit ick is the “marrying well” thing. Posters who say stuff like about how their dh is so wealthy or important as if that was their achievement. I find that a bit old fashioned and pathetic tbh. Someone else’s work is not your achievement and you can’t be fulfilled by that imo.

Also the self righteous “my dh couldn’t do his job without someone at home” as if they earn his money. I used to work in the city. I worked incredible hours and had a Nanny. I could do my job without a sahp and so could most of the women with children I worked with. But many of the men doing the same job did have sahm. How is it that women can do it when men can’t? Many of the men are doing much much less at home than the women too. Why are we constantly letting these men off with doing nothing in the house or with their children? It was hard work and I think we should all have a better work life balance.

I don’t judge sahm for not working in general though. But is that really what we are talking about here? Do we judge sahp who are single parents (whether living on state or on ex) the same as women with wealthy husbands? I do, but if you don’t, why not?

Yes, I absolutely judge - that you're amazing for being a SAHM and staying sane! I have huge respect for anyone who's full-time with their kids: I have a high-pressure job with long hours, and still think it's easier than being a SAHM. And as for the question of how single parents manage to keep themselves and their family above water, don't get me started...

It’s possible to be present and engaged with your kids as either a SAHP or a WOHP. It’s possible to contribute to your community and the economy as either too. Although most say they don’t judge, there’s a lot of stereotyping going on here.

I find it quite sad when women who are phenomenally bright waste their education and never work again after they’ve had kids.

Don't be sad, they aren't. Some people are happier at home than working, be sad for those who would prefer to work and can't, for whatever reason.

I wouldn't judge you.
In some ways I would be happy if we had enough money for me not to work... but I would also be bored. So I might not understand if you just do housework all day. But it's not a judgement as such. You shouldn't worry about what other people think op x

[quote BlueBoar]@justfinefornow I had an “amazing job” (well, two - corporate law and senior civil service) before I became a teacher. I hated both, despite the perceived prestige. My point is that for many people, being a colleague and a worker is important. I’m not sure I could feel the same pleasure in myself if I had no purpose other than “mother/wife” (I never have been and never will be a wife). But maybe some people do find fulfilment in being mother/wife despite their education and economic potential. I’d be interested to see what they would have done if they had been forced to work for survival reasons when their DS1 was less than one yea old though.[/quote]
I find loads of fulfilment outside of work! Personally I would not have chosen to have kids had we not been very financially comfortable - but that's just me - I get that other people have different priorities. I asked my kids if they wished I'd gone back to work and they laughed - my ds said he remembered a stage when he was envious of some CMs giving sweets to their mindies but when he said that was very short term - tbf they would not benefit from me working. But I am not at all embarrassed by being a mother or a wife - they are not dirty words and if you are embarrassed by them that is your thing.
Define a human being how you like - race, nationality, religion, politics, parenting - it's on you not me! I am not doing anyone any harm - looking after my kids while I felt they needed me, working now they clearly don't - I'm lucky I have that choice, I get that - but I would not have chosen to have kids without it!

I wouldn’t judge, probably be more envious.
I’m due to return to work after mat leave soon and dreading it. I would rather be a SAHM and if we made major lifestyle changes we could just about afford it at the moment. However it is complicated by my husband’s own career (military due to leave in a few years and his options in the civilian world not being as well paying as his military role) and I would need to do a return to practice/retraining if I took too long out. Our compromise is me dropping my hours to the minimum to keep me in training/validated. I worry I will be judged from both sides- the SAHM for working and the working mums for only working part time.

Certainly not, I was and still am always envious of SAHM. I have worked full time for 16 years and took around 6 months in total to have 2 DCs.

Working does not fulfill me, being a mum does. I dont give a toss about feminist ideals or spending DH money or having an identity outside being a mum. But I do appreciate that me working puts far more balance/peace of mind in terms of economic stress to DH providing everything.

I dont particularly enjoy dealing with babies and toddlers but I find my DCs (5 and 6) enjoyable when I pay attention to them and engage at their level. Having to juggle work on the other hand totally subtracts from our quality of life, in terms of constantly rushing (resulting in whiny children) weekend chores, compromises to family meals, not being there after school to be the first to chat to them etc. Also I think DH could go further in his career (which he likes) if i took care of the household 100%.

I’m not judging, if they’ve got the mentality to stay at home and not work then good for them, I go to work for a break... it’s non stop at home