Badly behaved children getting all the rewards at school

[magicgoldpot]

This really annoys me and I would appreciate it if any teachers on here could give me an answer as to why this happens.

My ds started reception a few weeks ago and every single day I've collected him the teacher says how well behaved he has been. She's even referred to him as a 'star pupil'.

Ds came home saying Ben ( not real name ) pushed him hard in the back and he fell and grazed his knee and hand. Next day Ben wouldn't do what the teacher said and so the teacher shouted and it scared ds. Other incidents too and not just with Ben.

Anyway, at pick up Ben comes out first and proudly shows his Mum he has 2 stickers, so do a few others. For good listening apparently! Ds comes out and has no stickers but I am told by the teacher he's been amazing today.

This has happened a few times and ds asked me yesterday if he will get a sticker one day. He says Ben always gets one but he's naughty. I told ds do not copy what Ben is doing as that is not the way to get a sticker/ reward. You will get one one day.

So why do teachers reward 'naughty' children for the slightest bit of good behavior, when the children who are always good and follow the rules get nothing?

At primary school, if your child was well behaved and hitting targets they were invisible.
The very top 3 golden children were chosen for every single school representation, even when names were pulled out of hats .
The kids who behaved badly got the attention, stickers. I used to tell my children some kids needed to be rewarded and encouraged at school because they weren't at home.

@Lardlizard. Completely agree on scrapping 100% attendance certificates in primary school. Why penalise ill children or those with disorganised home lives?

This used to wind me up when I myself was in primary!
On the other hand, it would be massively soul crushing for a child to never achieve anything. For some, sitting quietly for a few minutes or not shouting for a whole lesson is a huge achievement, and they should be recognised and encouraged for it.

That's just it kpo

No one ever gets the middle ground. If you dont agree it works or is done well then you want the kids beaten with sticks

God for if its recognised well behaved children might work really hard at being well behaved abd meltdown at home.

Or that a kid might have a shitty background but work their arses off and some praise might di them the world of good.

Or that there's a group in the middle who are forgotten all about who gave to watch their bulkies get awards for not punching them for a morning.

Just be aware if all the kids.

Agree with PPs about attendance certificates. I'd be interested to know whether they actually have a measurable effect on attendance, especially tackling poor attendance in children with chaotic home lives. I doubt it.

Sorry but the patronising comments that apparently all of us who find it unfair and have to explain to our DCs why they're achievements are never rewarded are suddenly wanting corporal punishment back? Please behave yourselves.
I've never, not once, slapped, smacked or laid my hands on my DCs and never would. I was smacked as a child for the smallest thing and I do mean smallest thing, and it led to massive resentment and Im NC with my parents as a result of their behaviour.
Violence solves nothing, you cannot fight a violent child's tendancy to hit or kick or worse by disciplining with violence. You can however pass them over for praise when they don't do enough to deserve it.

I know of one child whose mum asked why they didn't get a reward when their class reward chart was full by Christmas, and other children who did the bare minimum did receive a prize at the end of term assembly. She was told it was because her child tried too hard and was showing off the day before that he had completed his reward chart so would get a prize. The teacher felt (and this was an older teacher of years experience not a new one) that he needed to learn not to show off so he wouldn't be getting a prize.
Meanwhile a kid with few reward stickers on her chart, who was a terror, rude, insolent and made the classes life miserable got a prize.
I would love to say I was shocked but as I told her I really wasn't.

Same child who got a prize refused to take part in any races in sports day but was given a medal for sitting still. Not that she was being petulant and refusing to get up and join in.

How is that reinforcing anything but be a little sod and ride and here is a shiny medal, be proud of your achievement and we will kick you down for it?

@LadyofTheManners

That parents evening, we had an open one were everyone just mingled and grabbed the teacher. The naughtiest kid in classes mum was as usual standing blaming the teacher for her child being a misbehaved little horror. Whilst she was still standing there I asked the teacher about DDs progress and she sang her praises on politeness and manners and excellent work. So I said, isn't it a shame that you never show that to my children with the same level of praise you heap on certain other children. The teacher looked awkward. So I said, it's quite disconcerting for my DC's to see the same faces getting rewarded for sitting still for less than a minute once a term. It's demoralising.

You don’t think what you said here is rude? I do. You could have raised the same concerns in a politer way. You could have done it in a more private way.

I have a perfectly well-behaved child (at school. She can be a bit of a monster at home since lockdown) and that is down to many factors: her personality, her privilege and our parenting. She is a naturally well-behaved child. She comes from a stable and loving family, without money worries, and has grown up with the support of four adults near daily (me and DH and my parents) and eight adults when they see her (DH’s parents and aunts and uncles). We have parented her to the best of our ability. Have we been perfect? No.

If any of those factors had not been present, her behaviour could be very different. The children in school who need the stickers most are the ones who are not having all of their needs met. As I said in my first post though, we should definitely praise all children when they demonstrate good behaviour.

I remember years ago, as a teacher, watching the children walking to the front of the Friday morning assembly to get the "well done" stickers, and applause from the staff and rest of the school. One little girl next to me sighed "It's always the naughty ones, isn't it, Miss?"

@shreddednips

Agree with PPs about attendance certificates. I'd be interested to know whether they actually have a measurable effect on attendance, especially tackling poor attendance in children with chaotic home lives. I doubt it.

See our secondary has a reward system of X amount of points plus 95% attendance means they can stay after school and watch a child appropriate film on the big screen the school has with popcorn. DS (year 7 last year) had double the points but due to his health issues had 90% attendance. He wasn't the only one from the SEN disability group who was not extended an invite due to attendance. As I say he also has Asperger's and to him this was disgraceful. He said in his view those who had good attendance were probably the ones bringing the illnesses in and meaning he was off. And he said it was a punishment for having health issues beyond his control and having hospital appointments when the clinic was set up in school time which again wasn't his fault. So he wrote the headteacher a letter. He explained the above and how, for him to have far more points than the required number was difficult when his attendance was lower than others so really he and others were being penalised for their illness. The headteacher was pretty embarrassed actually, she agreed with him and said it had never been flagged before, but she shook his hand and said she was grateful. Now, kids with points but poor attendance due to known illness are indeed put on the list to attend if they have the points. No one who is well has complained.

Attendance is a different issue in my opinion. I hate attendance treats because it’s often not the child’s fault they’re not in.

However, schools are penalised for poor attendance so many will try to put incentives in place so the children don’t want to miss out.

[quote BeingATwatItsABingThing]@LadyofTheManners

That parents evening, we had an open one were everyone just mingled and grabbed the teacher. The naughtiest kid in classes mum was as usual standing blaming the teacher for her child being a misbehaved little horror. Whilst she was still standing there I asked the teacher about DDs progress and she sang her praises on politeness and manners and excellent work. So I said, isn't it a shame that you never show that to my children with the same level of praise you heap on certain other children. The teacher looked awkward. So I said, it's quite disconcerting for my DC's to see the same faces getting rewarded for sitting still for less than a minute once a term. It's demoralising.

You don’t think what you said here is rude? I do. You could have raised the same concerns in a politer way. You could have done it in a more private way.

I have a perfectly well-behaved child (at school. She can be a bit of a monster at home since lockdown) and that is down to many factors: her personality, her privilege and our parenting. She is a naturally well-behaved child. She comes from a stable and loving family, without money worries, and has grown up with the support of four adults near daily (me and DH and my parents) and eight adults when they see her (DH’s parents and aunts and uncles). We have parented her to the best of our ability. Have we been perfect? No.

If any of those factors had not been present, her behaviour could be very different. The children in school who need the stickers most are the ones who are not having all of their needs met. As I said in my first post though, we should definitely praise all children when they demonstrate good behaviour.[/quote]
See you assume no doubt as many others have that good kids= good parents who are on a certain wage and live in a big house. It's somehow fobbed off as "easier" for us

I'm not middle class. I come from a home with narc, violent parents. I rent a home I can only just afford and am on the lowest of low incomes as I'm self employed. Currently, I'm taking on whatever work I can find to put food on the table as my industry is currently totally impossible due to restrictions. My DH is in very poor health with lung conditions which are obvious to our DCs and which will inevitably lead him to not live to an age to see grandchildren. DD was so badly bullied we had to remove her from a school. Throughout infants and primary we had constant upheaval as we had 4 landlords who mismanaged funds and went under, taking our home with them each time. DD came out last year and had been questioning why she didn't want to snog the face off boys like her mates so was withdrawn whilst she figured it out. DS has health issues which limit his day to day activity.
So no, some kids do indeed have upheaval and other stuff going on behind the scenes. Not every child and not every parent uses this as an excuse for their child to be badly behaved. Some just get on with it.
So no, I don't believe I was rude. In fact her conversation with the teacher had ended. The rest of us had the manners to move away rather than listening in on others conversations. It wasn't hard to listen to her one from anywhere in the little classroom we were all shoved in as she was shouting for all to hear. If she recognised her child then that says she was aware and couldn't be bothered. I wasn't raising my voice. She was earwigging.
That was the last time the school did those style of open evenings and they thankfully went back to consultation evening with individual appointments.
I won't apologise because I think its unfair the same kids are heaped with praise throughout. If it worked then why would they need to continue throughout their educational career? It simply doesn't work in many cases and has a terrible effect on the confidence of other children who begin to wonder why they bother.

I'm 42 and still remember the injustice of rewards at primary school
I was a star pupil, I got ONE reward for it in the whole time I was at primary school.
I even missed the leavers party because I was running errands for the school office.
FFS reward the good kids.

The problem isn't children being rewarded and incentivised for things that they do well in or find a challenge, it's that it's often not a fair playing field on recognising that across the middle third of the class who don't attract attention and just quietly get on with it.

Everyone should have realistic ways to earn rewards according to their needs.

Between two DCs in y3 and y5, we've had one writer of the week certificate. DS1 earned it in y1 or y2 when he managed to write about 4 sentences about Zog that were phonetically sound enough that the reader could work out what he meant. He now has diagnoses of dyslexia, dyspraxia and ASD. It's a shame that some other pieces of writing where he has managed to produce more than usual, or legible hand writing haven't been recognised. At nearly 10, he's getting better at correctly arranging the 5 letters of his name. DS2 has never had it.

The star of the week is more evenly distributed and most get to go up a couple of times a year. My two tend to pick it up for something specifically sciencey or mathsy where they shine out. Some get it for being an all round good egg. Some, for something very specific and you can read between the lines as to what they are usually like... These are normally presented in weekly Family Assembly so until March I sat through this ritual week in, week out out of fear that the week I miss is inevitably the week that my darling gets a mention

Same child who got a prize refused to take part in any races in sports day but was given a medal for sitting still. Not that she was being petulant and refusing to get up and join in.

That could be my DS. For him getting out to sports day and sitting still would be a massive achievement.
The whole day is very overwhelming and hard work for him so if he sits and watches it all then fantastic!

Year before last he took on the role of announcer because he didn’t want to take part but was out there anyway

That's typical:
DD1 told me when she was reception that to get the most stickers you need to "be bad in the morning, then you get stickers for not being bad in the afternoon".
DD2 commented at the same age that you didn't get a reward at school for being good at something you got it for being "less bad than normal".
Ds would have had lots of stickers for the above reasons, however he absolutely hated stickers and they soon learnt not to give them to him.

What you can do is just mention to your teacher that he's desperate to earn a sticker, and wants to know what he needs to do to earn one. That normally just makes the teacher aware that they are trying to earn one.

I remember when dd1 was year 1, I had a group of about 6 little ones back from her form, all very good sensible children. I overheard a lovely conversation between them about whether it was worth being bad for a morning to earn star of the day because it always went to the naughty ones.
It was very funny to listen to, and they concluded that it wasn't worth it, which was good. But I did let the teacher know, in a kind of jokey way, and they did then (to me) very clearly have 2 days of "naughty" ones and 2 days of "generally not naughty" ones.

See you assume no doubt as many others have that good kids= good parents who are on a certain wage and live in a big house. It's somehow fobbed off as "easier" for us

No I don’t. I said in my post that her behaviour could have been different if one of the factors was missing. We don’t live in a big house. We’re lucky in our position in life and for that we’re very grateful.

I work in a school where a huge proportion come from disadvantaged families. Some poor behaviour is due to poor parenting. Some is due to additional needs that need supporting. Some is due to being anxious about something (young carers, no food at home, no support from family). It’s my job as their teacher to help them deal with their behaviour regardless of where it stems from.

@Coffeecak3 the point is my dd does get rewarded, but she has to achieve more. DC 1 would be rewarded for concentrating well as he finds that hard, dd finds concentration easy so pointless rewarding her for that. She got rewards for a well written and imaginative story. They gain stickers through good work, so she would get one for 100% on spellings where DC1 has been awarded them for 50% on spellings as that is good for him. It’s all about pitching rewards to motivate the child and not comparing your childs behaviour/rewards with others in the class.

[quote Groundhogdayzz]@Coffeecak3 the point is my dd does get rewarded, but she has to achieve more. DC 1 would be rewarded for concentrating well as he finds that hard, dd finds concentration easy so pointless rewarding her for that. She got rewards for a well written and imaginative story. They gain stickers through good work, so she would get one for 100% on spellings where DC1 has been awarded them for 50% on spellings as that is good for him. It’s all about pitching rewards to motivate the child and not comparing your childs behaviour/rewards with others in the class.[/quote]
Exactly!

I don't have anything helpful to say. But I have been worried about this myself, but for the opposite reason - my son has had behaviour issues in the past, but seems to be doing really well at school (he's just started Reception).

So when I saw your thread title I immediately thought of my DS. Then when I opened it I felt a rush of dread - his name is Ben! (Please tell me you have actually changed the name?!!! )

I just hope that if my son was actually misbehaving the teacher would message me privately and let me know, rather than just letting me think he's doing well. Hopefully that's also happening in this case.

I'm saying all this slightly tongue-in-cheek. But genuinely I agee with many PP - different children have different skills and different difficulties and it's early days for teachers, who are still trying to learn about their pupils. All children should earn rewards based on their own abilities, not the abilities of their peers.
This sums up exactly how my DS was at pre-school:

Him listening that day may have required a huge amount of effort compared to the other more "well behaved" children and if teachers were to wait until he had a "perfect day"they could be waiting an incredibly long time

That made me smile a little as at primary school my stars were going off the wall so I got moved up a year where I was very unhappy because I didn't understand all this talk about duran duran or wham or boys.

I haven't got any knowledge about how to speak to people about misbehaviour getting rewarded though.

As others have said they are trying to incentivise the badly behaved children to do better.
If its bothering your kid, it does no harm to ask for one!
My DS has ASD and often can't tell if he's considered "good" or not. His name fell off the reward chart and he spent half a term wondering what it could mean.
I mentioned it to his teacher and the next day he came home with a special certificate for good behaviour!

They gain stickers through good work, so she would get one for 100% on spellings where DC1 has been awarded them for 50% on spellings as that is good for him. It’s all about pitching rewards to motivate the child and not comparing your childs behaviour/rewards with others in the class

Sounds all very well but classes can be hectic, and there are 30 + kids amd many just get forgotten. Or they ru out of time to give awards akd the mids revert back to the bad behaviour because ultimately its gonna be a really really long process before the lod stops requiring rewards amd realises things are easier/better than before. Maybe I dunno, maybe its easier long term.not to start things you can't finish.

I noticed when dd1 was in yr 5 that thats where behaviour was the worst. Year 5 and yr 6. And those are the years where they are too old to give a shit about a sticker. And almost like reflection rooms as its 5 mins on their own and some peace and quiet.

Ultimately those it hasnt worked on are now worse than ever and you wonder if more consequences lower down in the school would have improved things.

Stickers and rewards are very short term answer to a long term.problem and part of me wonders if long term they do make things worse.

It is very frustrating for children who behave and perform well all the time. These rewards are a tool for teachers and are given as a reward for improvement, so if your behaviour was dire in the first place, it’s a lot easier to get them.

Now one of my children is in senior school, there’s less of the carrot approach and things are more geared towards actual academic attainment. This suits DS down to the ground, but of course rewards the same academic kids repeatedly. After years of being virtually ignored, he’s reaping the benefits. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

@Itisbetter

When you have a small child asking why does he never get rewarded for always doing as he asked then come back to me. Why should he be punished for behaving? In their mind that is exactly what is happening It isn’t “being punished” to not be praised for doing something you find easy. The teacher is rewarding the child for behaviour/outcomes that are good for them compared to their ability. For example she would give a prize to child A for being able to write his name while child B who’s been doing that since nursery might get praise for finishing a paperback. Are you seriously suggesting that the able should be the only ones to receive encouragement.

Teach your children to compete against themselves not others.

My DS is not competing against others. He is disheartened by the fact he is 100 stars behind the child who can’t even sit in their chair for 30 minutes. Those 100 stars mean he won’t get to go on x or play with x or have the special golden time. That is a punishment. He knows what is right and wrong, and knows I won’t be pleased if he doesn’t listen to his teachers and he gets praise at home however, his self esteem is in the floor as he will never be good enough to get the top reward. Children shouldn’t have different targets when it comes to behaviour rewards. Either scrap rewards or notice the child who quietly gets on with their work as well. Btw the teachers up thread saying it’s parent nonsense that ‘naughty’ children are chosen for star of the week etc other rewards. When I was a teacher I was asked who I was choosing for the year end reward for my subject. I was told I couldn’t chose the people who had consistently worked hard because they would no doubt be picked elsewhere as they are hard workers. Four choices were denied in one year group so I ended up having to reward someone who barely did anything. I know it happens, it irritated me then and now I have my own child I will complain especially if my 6 year old can point it out. I don’t complain about the other children being rewarded, I complain he isn’t rewarded.

@SoVeryLost Children shouldn’t have different targets when it comes to behaviour rewards.. Why not? . I can’t believe you’re a teacher and think this way! Did you skip differentiation and inclusion when you did teacher training???