What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

I've lived in the same town my grandparents were born in for over 20 years and I'm still considered a blow in. So yes you might be entitled to a passport as am I, but being accepted is entirely different.

"Surely you if your family has been in Australia since the 1850s you'd identify as Australian by now"

You'd think so but not exactly. We still have the ceilis, dancing, music etc. Culturally Irish but not anglo Aussie either.

@Mimishimi can you explain to me what an immersion is? Or who zig and and zag are? What a bogger is? What the answer is to the question 'an bhfuil cead agam dul go di an leathreas?' Or what a sloitar is?

If you can answer those questions without google, I will take my hat off to you and say you are irish. If you cant, then I am sorry, but you are not culturally irish.

What have Zig and Zag got to do with it? Weren't they characters on kids TV?

And I ask this as the child of a bogger

My point is being culturally irish isnt going to a 'celili' (which by the way no irish person has done in 50 years except when you go to the gaeltacht) or saying your family came over 200 years ago. It's about having experience of things that genuine irish people in ireland have experience of. An irish kid not knowing what zig and zag is is like an 'Australian' kid on the other side of the planet not knowing the wiggles, but still claiming they are 'culturally' Australian because their family got on a boat 200 years ago

My mum was born in Ireland and left when she was sixteen and has been here for over 60 years. She very much defines herself as Irish and would have a lot to say to say to someone that challenged that 😂😂 Shr also says we are Irish but I wouldn't agree. I have Irish heritage and feel that the culture has definitely influenced me but I'm not if you see what I mean.

I'd agree it's more an everyday thing, in the same way if someone British knew about various nightspots or the ins and outs of British foods, we talk about the irish mammy, spuds, the Late Late show, Joe Duffy, then Copper face Jack's is a pub in Dublin that's known nationwide, Croke Park, GAA county finals, cultchies, northside and Southside, calling people eejits (!) that sort of thing. Have never heard of a plastic paddy, but anyone talking about that isnt someone you want to be talking to anyway. Similarly I heard a lady who's been over here 20 years saying people say to her about going back to where she came from. They're just racist idiots, it's not a reflection on how the average irish person thinks.

Also there is a huge sectarian anti-English sentiment stemming from the fact that they blame the famine on the English due to them taking over land etc. They still seem to hold a grudge, but don’t to mind the Celtic nations. This is partly why you probably feel like an outsider

This blame game is especially true of certain communities in the USA and stems from ignorance, even sectarian propaganda, about English peoples history.

The vast majority of English people were working class during the 19th and early 20th century and had their struggles to contend with, but the narrative of many Irish Americans is that all English people were profiting from colonialism and living a life of ease, when nothing could be further from the from the truth.

I used to work in the tourist sector and would meet many so called 'Irish Americans' who simply couldnt understand that English peoples heritage is working class

DH and his brother moved to Ireland from England when DH was 2 and his brother was 7. FIL was from London, MIL was Irish. Younger brother was born here.

Oldest brother always considered himself English and has now moved to London and has a U.K. passport. Youngest brother considers himself totally Irish. DH feels mostly Irish. DH does still have a bit of an accent and if someone asks he’ll sometimes say he’s English if he thinks the person is likely to be annoyed!

the narrative of many Irish Americans is that all English people were profiting from colonialism and living a life of ease, when nothing could be further from the from the truth.

I disagree this is what most Irish Americans think. Never heard this and I lived among Irish Americans for most of my life, went to Irish Catholic schools for 12 years. People might blame 'the English' in short but they do mean the government and upper classes. We certainly read enough Dickens in school to understand not everyone in England had a cushy life!

The famine is a big deal for Irish Americans because it's the original source of the community, when a lot of their ancestors came over. So you can imagine the stories and emotions that get passed down through the generations, like in many diasporas.

Well I know what a boggart is and how to ask where the toilet is.

And our ancestors came from what is now the Gaeltacht so probably explains the old fashioned practise which is actually quite common among many immigrant communities around the world (eg the home country moves on and the emigrants retain some of the old stuff)

Born and raised here. Anything else is Irish heritage

I was born in England, to parents who were born in Ireland before moving to England as children. I see myself as English with Irish heritage and I support the ⚽️ & 🏉 teams of both countries.

I am entitled to an Irish passport under the terms of the GFI, so if Brexit fucks things up completely for UK citizens I will apply for one.

@Happyspud

If you were born and raised in (Republic of) Ireland, or at least spent the majority of your childhood in ROI, you're Irish. If you were born in Eng or elsewhere to Irish parents, you are English with Irish parents/heritage. If you identify as Irish but were born in NI, you are Northern Irish with a right to an Irish passport.

En no, if you're born in NI you can identify as Irish. It's in the Good Friday Agreement. You can identify as Irish, British, Northern Irish, all 3 or a combination of two.

Given the way things are now, surely anyone can say they are whatever nationality they claim to be, and anyone challenging it is a 'bigot' or 'racist'.

@YearOFF

Irish people are very weird and possessive sacred about their nationality. They arrogantly assume that everyone wants to be Irish and make fun of those who talk of Irish relatives.

Also there is a huge sectarian anti-English sentiment stemming from the fact that they blame the famine on the English due to them taking over land etc. They still seem to hold a grudge, but don’t to mind the Celtic nations. This is partly why you probably feel like an outsider.

Disclaimer: My parents are Irish and I grew up in England.

Irish parents and yet no clue about Irish history.

'They took over land etc' have you any idea just how significant and defining a point in Irish history this throw away statement is? Educate yourself.

So many sweeping statements on this thread.

I'm from 'Northern Ireland' - I am Irish
I'm not offended at being called a Paddy. I have also never met anyone irl who is offended by it. Only on Mn.
I now live in England, married to English dh, dc born in England. Dc Only ever had an Irish passport and they identify as Irish. My dh doesn't have a strong English cultural leaning so doesn't care whereas I do. Dc tell people they're Irish even though they have an English accent.

Born and raised in my view. My mums Irish. I'm not. As it happens my mum lived
Longer in the uk than ireland. She was still Irish.

[quote NellGwynsPenguin]@Cybercubed
I think if you’re offended when called a Paddy, then you’re Irish.
If you’re offended to be called a limey, then you’re English.

Of course being more inclined to nationalism and from NI, IMO makes you neither Irish nor British, but Northern Irish...

Sorry, but I don’t think you’re Irish, or English, but NI.

You could identify as Scots, Manx, Cornish or Welsh if that Celtic identity sat with you better.

The fact that you think it’s important leads me to define you as Northern Irish above all.[/quote]
Stop dictating what nationality people from NI can claim to be. People from NI are Irish, I don't know anyone who claims to be Northern Irish. The 'Northern Irish culture' isn't one I or many people I know identify with.

I do think there is an issue with Irish people who have raised their children in England and told them they were Irish too. I met a few people like that at college in Dublin and it was hard for them to absorb that they were English really - with their accents etc Irish ppl are very unlikely to accept them as Irish and some of them found it hard. My dad did this a bit as well tbh! I don’t know why. He didn’t raise us in Ireland full time so I don’t know why he thought we’d be just as Irish as he was.

A plastic Paddy would be more suited to an American whose Granny's neighbours dog was Irish, therefore they claim they are Irish too. You know, the ones who ask if you know the Murphys from Sligo and drink Black and Tans on Paddy's Day - which they call Patty's Day.

In your case you may be ethnically Irish but are you culturally Irish? I don't think your average Irish person would much mind you describing yourself as Irish anyway. It doesn't impact us.

Also there is a huge sectarian anti-English sentiment stemming from the fact that they blame the famine on the English due to them taking over land etc. They still seem to hold a grudge, but don’t to mind the Celtic nations. This is partly why you probably feel like an outsider.

Eh no, we blame the Famine on you because you are to blame, your government cheerfully watched our people starve.

That's a historical 'you' really, not aimed at the modern day people.

My children are born and raised in England however have Irish heritage through their father. They are on the Irish birth register and have European passports. If you asked them they would say they are English.