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Original poster

What constitutes to someone being Irish?

999 replies

Cybercubed · 18/08/2020 23:58

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

OP posts:
alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 20/08/2020 12:23

@Saoirse7 No apology then? And I’m from Northern Ireland and identify as Northern Irish, so you are wrong about that too. Although I now have an Aussie passport as well as my UK and Irish passports, so that makes things less complicated. Or more!

Saoirse7 · 20/08/2020 12:31

[quote alwayscrashinginthesamecar1]@Saoirse7 No apology then? And I’m from Northern Ireland and identify as Northern Irish, so you are wrong about that too. Although I now have an Aussie passport as well as my UK and Irish passports, so that makes things less complicated. Or more![/quote]
Sorry,l I misread your post. I reported the post as soon as I'd written it I didn't think it was still up for your to reply.

Saoirse7 · 20/08/2020 12:33

[quote alwayscrashinginthesamecar1]@Saoirse7 No apology then? And I’m from Northern Ireland and identify as Northern Irish, so you are wrong about that too. Although I now have an Aussie passport as well as my UK and Irish passports, so that makes things less complicated. Or more![/quote]
I never said people didn't identify as Northern Irish and have said I several times. I have said you don't have to identify as Northern Irish and can identify just as Irish or as both. You can also add British into the mix if you really want.

SqidgeBum · 20/08/2020 12:33

What I find confusing is the obsession with being something you are not. I am irish, 100% born bread raised irish. I now live in england. I moved for my DH. I could tell my DDs they are irish and they could grow up thinking they are irish, despite them having english accents, going to English schools, having english friends who live in an English culture. I am creating a problem if I tell her my DDs they are culturally irish because they arent. It my wish that theh are, but I have to accept that they arent having an irish upbringing.

Question is, what's wrong with that? Why is it bad they are English? Why the desperate need to be irish? I like being irish, I love my culture, but there are downfalls to it too. Put it this way, why do you think all your ancestors had to leave? I think being proud of who you are is important but that means accepting who you are. It's ok not to be irish.

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 12:38

@SionnachRua

So are you personally to blame for your historical government's actions as well? Or is it only English people that get beaten with this particular stick?

SionnachRua · 20/08/2020 12:53

[quote Wolfgirrl]@SionnachRua

So are you personally to blame for your historical government's actions as well? Or is it only English people that get beaten with this particular stick?[/quote]
I see you decided to not read the part where I said that that was a historical 'you' not the modern day people. That was a clever decision, well done you!

SionnachRua · 20/08/2020 12:55

Oh btw, that time 'you' meant specifically you. I thought I spelled it out quite clearly in the previous post but as you appear to struggle with reading comprehension, I better help you out.

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 12:56

@SqidgeBum

Because being English is not seen as exotic enough. Unless you are in the States of course.

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 12:59

@SionnachRua then why not say you blame the English government? Saying 'you' just sounds bitter.

The famine was years ago, let it go. If we all hang on to grievances from before we were even born the whole world would hate each other. Let's just chill out and get along.

GTFOOMW · 20/08/2020 13:03

@Halfpastafreckle

This is very interesting. My parents are both Irish and I have an Irish passport but born in London- I consider myself culturally Irish.

I think it is from how I grew up in the 80s - Irish enclave in london, at school my friends were Sinead, Siobhan, and the boys were called Brendan, Patrick etc. We all went on holiday (home to) to Ireland, had Irish dancing lessons, socialised at the local Irish club (attached to the church!), went to the local GAA club and cheered for the Irish teams/sports people. It never occurred to me that I was English Grin as ‘they’ were so different.

Basically I think the Irish community in London did a really good job of coming together and a lot of the kids born in that environment still have really close links to Ireland. Now I’d describe myslef as a Londoner and plastic paddy - I don’t see myself as being British still.

Exactly the same experience! You’re not from (County!) Kilburn are you?! 😆

I was also Irish until I went back ‘home’ for the holidays and my cousins called me a cockney.

I also grew up in a Republican family, which complicated things further....

I think of myself as a bit of both as an adult, though - Irish and British/English/a Londoner.

But listen, if England play Ireland in any sport, I root for Ireland Grin.

Cheeseybites · 20/08/2020 13:08

Wait so if my parents are African but I was born and raised here then am I English? Coz I have never been called English in my life...whereas my white Ukrainian friend is seen as English even though she didn't come here till she was 3

SionnachRua · 20/08/2020 13:12

[quote Wolfgirrl]@SionnachRua then why not say you blame the English government? Saying 'you' just sounds bitter.

The famine was years ago, let it go. If we all hang on to grievances from before we were even born the whole world would hate each other. Let's just chill out and get along.[/quote]
Because again, I specifically said in that comment that it was a historical 'you' - as in people of the past - and not aimed at the modern people? It's written in my initial comment for all to read...

I think there has been a lot of progress in the relationship between the countries. Was it 2011 that the Queen visited? That was a huge step. But equally it is fair to point out the wrongs of the British government in the past, just as it's fair to point out the wrongs of the Irish Government.

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 13:17

@SionnachRua but how can 'you' reasonably translate into 'your country's government from before you were born'? It sounds unnecessarily accusatory.

But equally it is fair to point out the wrongs of the British government in the past, just as it's fair to point out the wrongs of the Irish Government.

But we never do, do we? It is always the English wrongdoing which is brought up time and time and time again. By scottish, welsh, irish people. As an english person it gets really boring.

GTFOOMW · 20/08/2020 13:47

@Wolfgirrl

Unfortunately for you, people from Britain’s former colonies don’t have the luxury of finding their history ‘boring’

bellinisurge · 20/08/2020 13:53

What @GTFOOMW said.

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 13:55

@GTFOOMW

Ireland was neutral in WW2, and didnt suffer anything like England did.

So should I bring this up endlessly to German people, 'you did this' and 'you did that'?

No, because it is silly. Nobody alive today experienced the famine, it is just an opportunity to have a moan and indulge in some nationalistic neuroses.

TalbotAMan · 20/08/2020 13:56

@missyB1

I think it’s if you love Kimberley, Mikado and Coconut cream biscuits 😜
Since Ireland has one of the highest rates of coeliac in the world, maybe not!
SionnachRua · 20/08/2020 14:00

[quote GTFOOMW]**@Wolfgirrl

Unfortunately for you, people from Britain’s former colonies don’t have the luxury of finding their history ‘boring’[/quote]
Ding ding ding! The history is what it is and it shouldn't be forgotten just because it makes some people uncomfortable.

@Wolfgirrl I really don't know what you don't get in that post. I explicitly say that it's referring to historical people in it, it quite honestly couldn't be clearer. Beginning to think you just want to make the English seem like the victims.

KingFredsTache · 20/08/2020 14:01

Ah, these threads always go so well Grin

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 14:05

@SionnachRua

A 'historical' you doesnt exist. You either say you as in, you personally; or 'you' to refer to a group of people. 'You' could at a stretch be applied to today's government as they are part of that 'group' - but not to the English public. It is a way of twisting the knife and making it look more acceptable.

As for history being uncomfortable... well, that goes for everyone, doesnt it? But it is only England that has its history raked over time, and time, and time again.

I think it is to make the rest of the UK feel special and united by mutual hatred, which is a bit sad.

Otherwise what is the point?

SionnachRua · 20/08/2020 14:14

Ah so it is about the English being the victims! Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. I'll keep referring to your ancestors as 'you' collectively and you can feel victimised. Win win.

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 14:17

So it is okay for Ireland to bang on and on about past grievances, but when an English person does it (if only to draw parallels) it is 'playing the victim'?

Tells you all you need to know really doesnt it...

Wolfgirrl · 20/08/2020 14:23

Also my ancestors are Irish so it would be an own goal really... 😂

GTFOOMW · 20/08/2020 14:41

Germans generally aren’t defensive about their history and they certainly don’t accuse Jewish people of being boring or wallowing in victimhood for bringing it up.

plonkplonk · 20/08/2020 14:45

@GTFOOMW & @Halfpastafreckle my upbringing was very similar. I class myself as British with Irish heritage in the same way most of my friends but swap it for Nigeria or Indian heritage.

@SqidgeBum I don't think it's to do with being exotic enough or an obsession.

I was born & raised in London (side point the lack of this doesn't prevent people calling themselves Londoners) to ROI parents.
All holidays were spent in ROI as all my family were/are still there & my dad moved back when my parents divorced. I lived in a very diverse area of London & my entire education was at Catholic schools. My parents had lots of Irish friends & we did Irish dancing, tin whistle etc. My school friends & neighbours were all children of immigrants eg Irish, Nigerian, Philippines , Polish, Iranian, Maltese etc my culture & influence was a melting pot but certainly not English. The first friend I had who had 2 english parents I met at uni & that's when I started to notice differences. I now live in a white "english" area & I do think it's significant that my closest neighbours & school mums are 2nd gen immigrants as that's who I feel most comfortable with subconsciously.