What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

If you were born and raised in (Republic of) Ireland, or at least spent the majority of your childhood in ROI, you're Irish. If you were born in Eng or elsewhere to Irish parents, you are English with Irish parents/heritage. If you identify as Irish but were born in NI, you are Northern Irish with a right to an Irish passport.

Born in England, Irish mother, English father, grew up in Republic of Ireland.

Similar to you - in Ireland, I was considered English by kids at school and neighbours. They believed I had an English accent.

When visiting family in England, we were ‘the Irish grandchildren’ and family/family friend believed we had Irish accents.

Both groups were being honest - in Ireland we sounded very English and in England we sounded very Irish.

Similar identity crisis when young. I grew out of it!

@Happyspud

If you were born and raised in (Republic of) Ireland, or at least spent the majority of your childhood in ROI, you're Irish. If you were born in Eng or elsewhere to Irish parents, you are English with Irish parents/heritage. If you identify as Irish but were born in NI, you are Northern Irish with a right to an Irish passport.

So what am I??!

Technically you're Irish because you are automatically a citizen. Your kids would have to apply get on the Foreign Birth Register.
Ask on the Craicnet topic.

Where you’re born and raised or at least raised for a large part of your childhood and/or your accent is from there. Not the same, but for e.g. I had a partner who was raised and grew up in Sunderland, went to school there and had a very Sunderland accent. He was, however, born in the town where his parents were at university on the south coast.... He would never have said he was from Brighton though, whatever his birth certificate said! Less clear cut was a friend who was born and raised until 10 in Manchester and moved down to London with her parents for her Dads job. By the time we met in sixth form she had lived in London for 7 years of her 17, but had a Manc accent and saw herself as Mancunian.

So it’s definitely not a 100% simple formula, but I think you have to have lived there, not just have your family be from there.

@MMN123 I'd say you're Irish with an English father. But that's just my opinion.

bellinisurge

I have an Irish passport (as well as a British one). I don't want to throw a spanner in the works in this thread and add another dimension to my already complex identity but my father was actually born in Canada (move back to Ireland when he was 2), because Canadian citizenship is automatically handed down one generation it means I'm also an Canadian citizen too. It might be a stretch calling myself Canadian given I've never actually been there, but it does mean I'm a tri citizen.

I guess I personally distinguish between someone who is Irish on paper (millions of people who essentially have a right to a passport) and Irish in experience (people who are born and raised and educated in the country).

Happyspud

I think that's reasonable. I grew up as a plastic paddy in England (my parents kind of forced it upon me) but moving to Ireland ironically has made me feel less Irish when I started socialising with proper Irish people and didn't feel culturally the same as them in many ways. I'll always be a blow in/outsider here for as long as I live and that's fair enough.

Irish people are very weird and possessive sacred about their nationality. They arrogantly assume that everyone wants to be Irish and make fun of those who talk of Irish relatives.

Also there is a huge sectarian anti-English sentiment stemming from the fact that they blame the famine on the English due to them taking over land etc. They still seem to hold a grudge, but don’t to mind the Celtic nations. This is partly why you probably feel like an outsider.

Disclaimer: My parents are Irish and I grew up in England.

@YearOFF, your post demonstrates a laughable Ignorance of post-colonial realities and Irish history. Seriously, do some reading, and let go of your issues with Mammy and Daddy

I've a funny story from my teenage travels in the US. I was in Banana Republic buying something with travellers cheques and the guy behind the till said 'wow, weird accents. Where are you girls from?'. I said Ireland. He said 'Ireland? Where's that? Never heard of it'. So we explained where it is and said something about being Irish' and he clapped his hands and excitedly squealed 'IRISH?? I'm Irish'. 😅

@YearOFF did you learn history from a Ladybird book?

Happyspud

Oh well, at least Americans generally have a positive view of the Irish overall, not sure that can be said still for some parts of the UK.

I dont think obsessing over your nationality is ever a good thing if I'm honest.

@Cybercubed
I think if you’re offended when called a Paddy, then you’re Irish.
If you’re offended to be called a limey, then you’re English.

Of course being more inclined to nationalism and from NI, IMO makes you neither Irish nor British, but Northern Irish...

Sorry, but I don’t think you’re Irish, or English, but NI.

You could identify as Scots, Manx, Cornish or Welsh if that Celtic identity sat with you better.

The fact that you think it’s important leads me to define you as Northern Irish above all.

My DH was born in London to Irish-born parents. They would have cast him out if he called himself anything but Irish. He grew up in a very Irish way in London, but in Ireland, he was considered English. I think its affected him to be honest and made him feel like an outcast wherever he is (he puts on an Irish accent when in Ireland but lived there for about three years as a small child)- and deprived him of understanding and experiencing other cultures.

For this reason we have not enforced anything on our own children (they are multiple passport holders).

I count myself as Irish, I was born in England to one Irish parent and one English parent but moved to Ireland when I was 3. All my memories are of Ireland, all my education was in ireland, all my cultural references are Irish, I speak Irish. I have an Irish passport but don't feel that is why I am Irish, its all the other stuff.

Your username classifies you as Irish, ouioui ⭐️

@NellGwynsPenguin

Your username classifies you as Irish, ouioui ⭐️

TáTáKitty didn't have quite the same ring to it

I would say you are British with Irish heritage. Whereas I have an Irish great grandparent (as do most of us) and I am just British.

I find it odd (sorry) to identify as Irish because of discovered ancestry. I think it is about where you grew up but strong parental links like the OP has also play a part.

Americans are the worst for this! They consider themselves Irish if they are of Irish descent several generations ago. They have often grown up in a community of other people with similar heritage who also regard themselves as Irish. I think it’s a result of America being so multi cultural - there’s no national identity so people cling to their distant heritage. Ditto the Italian Americans and other groups.

Personally I am English with an Irish mother. She has a very stereotypical Irish look - delicate pale skin, high forehead, upturned nose, red wavy hair and freckles. I look just like her and I’m often mistaken for Irish until I open my mouth - particularly by Irish people. Oddly I’ve been told that my arms are Irish shaped - apparently there’s a distinct look with long thin limbs and narrow wrists?

NellGwynsPenguin

Interesting perspective. I come from a nationalist background but I'm not really that political or have strong allegiances to either side really (since I've not from here originally), and whilst living here I've tended to vote for moderate/non sectarian parties.

Wolfgirrl

I don't obsess over it, I'm enjoying the thread and the responses to it mind but I've lived in Northern Ireland for nearly 20 years now so I'm sort of used to my situation if you like anyway. People can consider me what they want but Northern Ireland is ultimately home now and that's most important thing above anything else.

My parents are both from NI, they moved to England for work and me and my sister were born here.
I feel and identify as Northen Irish. I spent a lot of my childhood in Co Tyrone with my cousins and extended family, my parents brought us up as if we still lived there even if we were in England.
My children however are English, they’ve only been to NI a couple of times.
Funnily enough they have a Scottish surname curtesy of DH grandparents.
DH was born in Germany because his dad was working there when he was born but he’s definitely not German!

@Shesapunkpunk the ships left from Cork, papers only detailed where people departed from.