Should we be more honest about weight?

[LockdownLoser]

A friend of mine has put weight on, she checked her BMI and is firmly in the overweight category.

Now in a large size 12, bordering on a 14 she is not huge by any stretch of the imagination and is probably the slim one at work, amongst her friends etc.

She posted on Facebook how much of a shock it is and how she has always been the skinny one.

Queue people falling over themselves to say how BMI is rubbish, how there's nothing of her, how she should ignore it as she is the size of one of their thighs and so on.

Now she does look great, and I have told her so whilst suggesting a few exercise classes we could do together IF she wants to lose the extra couple of pounds, but when does body positivity become dangerous?

BMI is not just made up figures? It's based on something and serves a purpose, being overweight does come with health risks.

So when do we be honest and say actually yes you could do with losing a couple of pounds for the sake of your health, let's do it together. Instead of saying oh the medical guidance is rubbish, you look fantastic.

All this, well you are smaller than me so have a biscuit seems like encouraging each other in the race to become unhealthy.

I've got two friends who I spend a lot of time with who are about 2 stone overweight. One of them has lost and regained her 2 stone at least 3 times in the 15 years I've known her.

We all know we're fat, we all know we need to lose weight, we all talk about it honestly. Every single one of my female friends in their 50s (that's the vast majority of my friends) has put on weight post menopause.

Being fat is not a sin. Eat less, move more is simple but not easy.

Honestly, is there anything else needs saying on the subject?

Jings no I haven't. I know why the people say things to me like that - because they think that my dieting must come from a place of self-hatred, or feeling sad about how I look, so they're trying to say what they feel are nice kind supportive things. They're people I love, so I don't want to hurt their feelings.

With DH I think there is a sexist assumption they're making that men don't have an emotional entanglement with their weight and don't base their self-esteem on their weight. So he gets "good luck" and I get "oh you don't need to", and those are both meant as positive and supportive comments.

You don't need all this discussion about weight. You know within your own self if you are skinny, slim, fat, or really obese. Other peoples views are not important.

I think BMI works as long as you're not borderline on either end

I'm being dim, what does this mean?

I think BMI is reasonable. I am on the cusp of the overweight range (24) and I do look slightly overweight. Vanity sizing is bonkers. I sometimes need to buy an 8, which is crazy. 30 years ago I woud have been a 14 at my current size, I am sure of it.

I have a BMI of 23.8, yet my % body fat is astonishingly high (too ashamed to write it down). I'm very short and am a serial snacker so while my calorie intake is usually low, it's ultimately made up of the wrong things. So technically while I'm BMI healthy range, I'm actually not that healthy.
Clothes on-meh, I'm alright. Bit of a pouch so need high waist jeans and wide hips.
Clothes off-fucking mess.
I think BMI is helpful, but it shouldn't be something considered in isolation.

I agree op. I am similar to your friend ( minus the posting on Facebook for sympathy). I am sometimes the right side of the overweight line, at the moment I am just over and should probably loose a few pounds. I don't need friends lying to me about how BMI is just made up though....

Someone being slightly below 19 or slightly above 25 @mrsmayo

My BMI is 27 but again by how I look (and body fat *%) I'm not overweight.

I think that there is a lot of denial about weight in general. Tracksuits and leggings make it easier to be in denial or maybe not even really notice. Consistent sizing would help, though I cannot see it coming under trade descriptions law.

As we know weight is a factor with so many illnesses inc hideous covid. We can say ‘BMI is rubbish’ but for most it is kidding ourselves isn’t it. The UK is one of the most overweight countries in world!

People who are overweight don't need you to tell them they are overweight, they know. Even if the ask, they know. I think we are honest enough. Telling someone they are too fat isn't likely to make them lose weight.

Having read about the huge amount of emotional and mental energy somone women put in to be thin, have you considered for some people it's just not worth it. For perhaps a few years more of old age. Vs constantly focusing on what you eat. The blanket assumption that if you're fat you will die very prematurely is clearly also untrue.

@LockdownLoser perhaps people would be more honest and open about weight if there wasn't a hysterical moral judgement of fat people. (see many comments on many MN threads)

Personally I'm overweight. This is for many reasons including eating too much, mental and physical health. But I always felt like it was very black and white. In that you are either in your perfect bmi range or unhealthy. This shuts people out and stops them feeling like they can be a healthy weight. When actually much better communication is that exercise makes a huge difference as does even losing a small amount of weight. However a person who has done this and still appears overweight will be judged by the people commenting on this thread for not being their ideal weight.

While BMI is actually bollocks in a lot of cases I think weight is really something people are far too scared of. It's not permanent,you can change it if you want to and I don't know about anyone else but I for one fluctuate from week to week. Anyway to me there are worse things than being a bit overweight. It's not that big of a deal unless your health is affected. If you want to lose a few pounds go for it, if you don't and you are quite content then good for you! The way I see it someone's weight has fuck all to do with me so best just to keep my nose out

We get regular threads about the government's role in obseity, but there is a general cultural problem with weight and far too much emotional value put into it.

As a 5'2 pear shape, I don't have much hiding space for gains. I've always been active and had a reasonable diet, so being in the healthy range until having children in my 30s, it wasn't something I had to pay too much attention too. Now being the wrong side of 35, living with carb hungry, twig like children, I have to try harder. I've never fallen into the culture of crash diets/ binging fortunately. I maintain in a "happy zone" and rein back a bit more on portions and treats when I exceed it. If I didn't, then I would have gradually crept up long past the "overweight" threshold.

I've gained in recent months. Boredom eating in early lockdown. Losing regular bursts of exercise doing the school run. Struggling with running due to lack of access to the Osteopath and injury. I know what I need to do to sort it out, focusing on regular exercise for now, and sorting out diet when the DCs are back to school.

I don't tend to talk health/ fitness in RL. Because I stay fairly slim and other than having to lose pregnancy gains, people don't see the way that I do actively manage it. There's too much focus on joining up the likes of SW/ WW or unsatisfying crash diets and then struggling because it's not a balanced lifestyle. In workplaces, colleagues are normally there bonding over their latest stage on the weight rollercoaster and then bemused that I've had a bog standard school dinner for lunch. Enough to satisfy and stop most snacking, but not excessive. The big difference is not spending my evenings marking with a bottle of wine and a share bag of snacks. I appear to eat a lot, it's just that there aren't many hidden extras.

As a society we do need to be more honest about managing healthy diet and activity levels long term. It's something that I've always prioritised because I don't want my lifestyle to kill me in my early 50s as happened to my dad while I was still a child.

BMI is not infallible but it generally is a good indicator. When combined with other measurements, tape measures, body fat measurements, blood pressure, it is possible to get a good idea about where you are with general health. As a society, we need to be less emotional about it and more practical.

It only seems to be on Mumsnet that BMI isn’t a good indication of a woman’s size.
I check weights and BMIs a lot - have done for hundreds of women generally when prescribing contraception so mostly 15-45 years old and I’m yet to meet all these slim size 8s with an overweight BMI. The odd semi professional rugby player who is clearly healthy with a BMI of 26, or young woman who runs and seems well at 17.5/18, but that’s it in my experience.
I’m sure these women exist but I’m not sure they’re as common as people make out.
Also it’s common knowledge on Mumsnet that everyone who is overweight knows that they are - not in my experience unfortunately!

OP, this is a great thread, a rare MN thread about weight that hasn't descended into sniping. I fully agree we need more honesty.

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee *Sorry, but I think its a really bad idea. It sounds like you are suggesting that you go around telling fat people to lose weight?

You don't think that every medical appointment we already get told that?*

I'm surprised you say this, as this absolutely isn't my experience. In the past 5 years I have had one medical professional tell me I was too heavy. One! And I've seen a lot, for various reasons. My BMI has not been below 31 all that time, and peaked at 39. I went through pregnancy (high risk due to my weight) and am currently pregnant again. I asked for a referral to help me avoid gaining 3 stone again this time (and hopefully not have another 9lb baby). The best the dietician could come up with was the suggestion to grate the cheese for my sandwiches and dilute my orange juice. I am 15 fucking stone!!! I'm almost heavy enough to qualify for bariatric surgery on the NHS, but this was the best they could offer!

I have been overweight my entire life and I don't know what the solution is. I wholeheartedly agree though that we need to be more honest about overweight and obesity. This is not the same as fat shaming. I also think there needs to be more recognition (both societally and medically) that many many people with weight problems have a very problematic relationship with food, if not an eating disorder. And an acknowledgement that the diet industry is a con.

@ScorpioSphinxInACalicoDress

Codename- exactly! I'm sitting here in my size 14 (M&S so super vanity) linen trousers and my size 18 M&S top. And my trews are digging in. Yet GP did the BMI thing and I was 19. I'm 5' 9 but even so...I am an egg shape. Legs are fine. I'm basically Humpty.

At 5’9 and BMI 19, that means you weigh just over 9 stone. If you have an accurate view of your body and are correctly describing yourself as a size 16 with rolls of fat, then that suggests that your lean body mass is very very low. Might be a good idea to discuss this with your doctor in case your unusual measurements are explained by osteoporosis or muscle wasting.

I think we should lose the talk about whether one looks like they're overweight/obese or not. That's not an objective measure of anything and it's increasingly misleading at a time when the average person is an unhealthy weight. Clothing sizes are similarly an unreliable measure. If someone is not happy to trust BMI for any reason, there are plenty of other measures, eg. body composition or waist/height or waist/hip ratios.

I really do wish it wasn't such an emotive issue, but I also can't think of an easy way to fix and change that. I have an eating disorder, so I suppose it's extra emotive to me, but even for myself I wish there was a more matter-of-fact approach to weight and habits, both from family and from professionals.

@Hotandknackered For me it's not at all about extending my life. It's really more about whether I want a higher chance of the last ten or twenty years of my old age to be as disability-free and independent as possibly, or not. I'm already not that well, even at a healthy weight. I want to give myself the best chance I can to not get worse. Pain and illness are miserable, as everyone knows. Much more so than skipping a snack.

I think it's best to lose weight when you are at the point your friend is at. She doesn't have much to lose or any rush to lose it by the sounds of it. It will be a short painless diet or even just a few adjustments in lifestyle. On the other hand if you say, oh it's only a few pounds I won't worry, before you know it you have gained triple that and then some.

She was bound to get silly responses by making silly remarks like 'omg I've always been the skinny one'. The issue really didn't need to make it to social media!

Totally agree. I was a size 16, thighs the size of tree trunks, trouble breathing, sleeping etc and my mother still wouldn't accept I was chubby. You're fine, she'd say

Finally my dad admitted, you could lose a bit of weight, love

It only seems to be on Mumsnet that BMI isn’t a good indication of a woman’s size.

^^

If not BMI, then what? What's the yardstick?? It needs to fit all

People who are overweight don't need you to tell them they are overweight, they know

^

All due respect, etc, sometimes they do. Denial is a powerful thing

We should all be honest about weight and stop pretending it's something to keep quiet about.

Keep quiet about?! Lots of people seem to talk of little else. It's talked about everywhere all the time.

If by 'honest' you mean should we just say 'Actually yes, you are fat and you need to lose weight' to our friends and relatives, then no. I don't think that would help in the slightest tbh. People know they are fat, they know it's bad for them and they know they should lose weight. If anything, being called out on it tends to make them defensive and probably drives them to more comfort eating.

People who want to be honest about other people's weight remind me of grammar pedants who correct other internet users 'for their own good'. It's not really for other people's good, it's superiority dressed up as concern. What matters is the outcome of your 'honesty', not how it makes you feel. If it's not going to help people lose weight, don't say it (unless you're a doctor and it's your job to).

I've put two stone in lockdown and after always being "the skinny one" I now feel like a whale!

I'm a comfortable size 12 now having gone up from a 8/10. I have started running again, stopped with the crap of slimming world and just eating healthily with some intermittent fasting thrown in.

I'm aiming to be back in my size 10s by Christmas, although hoping to get 1.5 stone off by November with the last half stone off in December, maintain over Christmas then get an extra half stone off to be at the lower of bmi range.

I too have had people tell me I'm not fat.. I am and I know it! I'm just going to say anything and just crack on!