Should we be more honest about weight?

[LockdownLoser]

A friend of mine has put weight on, she checked her BMI and is firmly in the overweight category.

Now in a large size 12, bordering on a 14 she is not huge by any stretch of the imagination and is probably the slim one at work, amongst her friends etc.

She posted on Facebook how much of a shock it is and how she has always been the skinny one.

Queue people falling over themselves to say how BMI is rubbish, how there's nothing of her, how she should ignore it as she is the size of one of their thighs and so on.

Now she does look great, and I have told her so whilst suggesting a few exercise classes we could do together IF she wants to lose the extra couple of pounds, but when does body positivity become dangerous?

BMI is not just made up figures? It's based on something and serves a purpose, being overweight does come with health risks.

So when do we be honest and say actually yes you could do with losing a couple of pounds for the sake of your health, let's do it together. Instead of saying oh the medical guidance is rubbish, you look fantastic.

All this, well you are smaller than me so have a biscuit seems like encouraging each other in the race to become unhealthy.

@QuestionableMouse

BMI isn't the best guide ever as it fails to account for many body types.

And this is a great example of the issue.

BMI is a tool, it's fairly blunt but unless you exercise loads, with weights, if BMI says you are firmly overweight, you probably are!

YANBU we need to be more honest about weight. We need to take the emotion out of it, treat it like high blood pressure and stop all this fannying about with 'fat shaming' and saying it'll give people eating disorders. Being overweight is unhealthy, with very few exceptions (a healthy overweight person would be healthier at a healthy weight).

@ktb100 yes I agree, we are closer in culture to the US.
The obsession with Starbucks, McDonald's and all of these chains. Super shakes with cakes on top. All the cookies, biscuits, crisps lined up in the supermarket.
I remember telling my friend not to take my dd to McDonald's, because she doesn't like it. I took her once and she spat it out. Here, happy meals come with a book, not a toy, so there isn't even an additional incentive. I got a massive lecture about how i was cruel for depriving my kid of a childhood for not taking her to maccyds. But she genuinely doesn't like it.
Don't get me wrong, she does like junk food. She's had multiple ice creams a day while on holiday and at home she dances around the doorbell if she knows pizza delivery is coming.
But life does not center around food like it does in the uk/us.

Well I was rather chuffed to find a the doctors I have stayed the same weight since before Covid. However, I really do need to lose weight - I would say about 5 stone overweight.

The question is simple- if someone brings up their weight, should we be honest and encourage them to develop healthier habits or should we deny the issue and reassure them that it is fine and the medical guidances doesn't apply to them.

Why couch your own opinion in a collective? Should YOU tell your friend she's fat when she brings up her weight? You do you and leave others to do them. That's what's honest, not using a collective as a pretext to validate your own opinion. Go for it! Tell her she needs to lose weight and is unhealthy, see how you get on.

Sorry, missed out the quotes
The question is simple- if someone brings up their weight, should we be honest and encourage them to develop healthier habits or should we deny the issue and reassure them that it is fine and the medical guidances doesn't apply to them.

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

The question is simple- if someone brings up their weight, should we be honest and encourage them to develop healthier habits or should we deny the issue and reassure them that it is fine and the medical guidances doesn't apply to them.

Why couch your own opinion in a collective? Should YOU tell your friend she's fat when she brings up her weight? You do you and leave others to do them. That's what's honest, not using a collective as a pretext to validate your own opinion. Go for it! Tell her she needs to lose weight and is unhealthy, see how you get on.

If I wanted to discuss my friend specifically I would have posted in AIBU, my friend and I have discussed our weight and what's healthy, what we could do with changing.

This is a wider discussion, my friends post was mentioned to illustrate the point. The thread is about the attitude towards weight in society generally and our reluctance to discuss it for what it is. Not for advice specifically on my friends situation. It is something the majority have come across wether aimed at us or someone we know.

I think alot of people have become used to seeing larger bodies and have a skewed idea of what really overweight means. I have given up asking for help on losing weight because everyone I speak to responds with:
You don't need to lose weight! Your tiny, theirs nothing of you, you'd look I'll etc.

My BMI is 24 - whilst technically not overweight yet I am aware that I am bigger than I am comfortable being and I am very close to becoming overweight. I am 4'11 and in size 8 clothes (depending on the shop I can range from size 4-8, so vanity sizing also has a lot to account for!). I am aware that I do weigh less than the average woman but I am also a hell of a lot shorter and so it is not actually helpful for people to just brush off BMI as rubbish. I think if you are telling your friend that she does look fantastic, but you will support her if she wants to lose the extra weight for herself then that is brilliant.

BMI is a tool, it's fairly blunt but unless you exercise loads, with weights, if BMI says you are firmly overweight, you probably are!

Only, as I linked above, this would appear not be true. Using BMI alone with a sample of black, hispanic and white women, it failed to accurately recognise obesity in more than 50% of cases.

It didn't work, more than it did.

It also was designed almost 200 years ago by a man with no background in medicine or health and was never intended to be used to assess indivduals, but instead used to assess whole populations via averages - with a thinly veiled attempt to bring back poor results for anyone who wasn't white and Scottish or French men (the only samples used to develop it). It was then 'revamped' in the 1970s based solely on men. No women at all were used to develop the different categories of BMI.

It also would not appear to be a great indication onf longevity as those with a BMI under 25 tend not to live as long as those with a BMI just above it.

It is deeply, deeply flawed as a measurement of health.

I've been very slim and I've been overweight, and now I'm kind of back in the top end of middle, but would like to lose a half a stone to a stone. At my slimmest I had a BMI of 19-20 and everyone told me I was too thin, looked ill, had a lollipop head etc. With a BMI of 28, everyone told me I looked great. I didn't. I looked fat (for me). I can see it when I look back on photos from that time, my face had lost its definition, I had a big belly, my thighs chafed, I was always too hot. I was certainly fit (trained lots but over ate) but I didn't look good and I never felt comfortable. I'm back in the top-end of a healthy BMI now. I'd like to get to a BMI of 22-23 and then I'll be happy, I think. I can maintain at that weight (have done before) without having to over exercise or deprive myself.

I do think we've lost sight of what a healthy weight looks like, and the "BMI is rubbish" brigade, which I definitely used to be part of, don't help. I used to weight lift quite a lot when I was bigger. I convinced myself my BMI was high due to muscle mass. It might have contributed, but I was also just overweight, very simply, and if I'd not been kidding myself re BMI I wouldn't have stayed that way for so long. It's important to me to be a healthy weight, there's a history of bowel cancer and type II diabetes in my family and I don't want to jeopardise my health. I think most of the time people are trying to be kind/bolster others' confidence with the "you look great" stuff, plus there's probably an element of denial on their part (when I was big I felt terrible about myself when my slimmer friends went on diets). But I think there's also the "real women have curves" narrative, which I do believe is really damaging, for a variety of reasons.

BMI is just an objective measure of what we can all see

I’ve yet to meet anyone whose BMI did not meet with what is right in front of you

We just need to take the emotion out of weight, but the question is how to do it when so much of our self image, and therefore emotion towards ourselves, is bound up with weight?

It's hard. Years ago I went on a diet and lost weight and the change in the females around me was surprising. It was almost as if my weight loss affected their 'position' somehow. Sorry hard to articulate but they clearly didn't like the fact I lost weight and I could see it somehow 'threatened' them or maybe their view of themselves.

But she herself acknowledged she has put on weight and checked out her BMI, and recognized she was actually overweight. So, whatever others say, she will try to lose weight if she wants to, doesn't she?
I used to be slim, but put on a lot of weight after dc. I walked everywhere with dc and people offered the lift, but I said I can drive but choose to walk to lose some weight. People were surprised and said I was tiny. What people say don't really matter to me, I thought I was over weight, I couldn't wear the clothes I used to wear, and know I needed to do something.
After lockdown, I'm back to overweight again. I know I have to do something. If I can motivate myself or not is different matter.

For me BMI is a good measure of how healthy I am. At the higher end of the healthy range I feel I have less energy, don't sleep as well and generally feel a bit rubbish. The closer I get to a BMI of around 22 the better I feel. I was always the skinny one in my family and among my friends and I think that perception has stuck now, even recently with a BMI closing in on 25, waist measurement of 34" (tape measurement not shop vanity sizing!) and bulging out of clothes.
I mentioned to a couple of people I wanted to loose a little weight and tone up and was instantly told 'no, you don't need to, don't go too far!' My Mil actually went and got the biscuit tin out!! I've now lost 10lbs and feel so much better and glad I did what I knew I needed to do.
I know if I don't loose the smaller amounts of weight then it will just get harder the more I put on.
Society is sadly now programmed to see overweight as normal and normal weight as skinny.

Using BMI alone with a sample of black, hispanic and white women, it failed to accurately recognise obesity in more than 50% of cases.
It didn't work, more than it did.

So, it classified these women as overweight rather than obese. That's still useful information. The tool is a useful guide for most people.

BMI may be an decent indicator but it is not treated as such, it is treated as absolute rule. It is insufficient as a test giving you an accurate idea of whether you are overweight because it does not address body fat content, distribution and other factors which are related to health concerns linked to being overweight. As such it should be taken as an indicator whereby further investigation is undertaken if concerned.
As for honesty, most people’s relationships with food are impacted by their mental state and “being honest” could send that person into a more difficult spiral. Not to mention honesty based on perception is highly subjective so no I think an artful swerve on the subject is often best unless there are acute health concerns.

@MrsMayo

I'm desperately trying to lose 4lbs to start with to get into my healthy BMI (at the top end). Then lose some more. However, I have once been at the lowest of my BMI due to a break up and someone asked if I was a drug user and when I looked back on a photo I looked awful.

See this is where BMI gets silly. Being 4lb over the category of healthy weight doesn't matter. Being 4 stone over definitely does.

@ScorpioSphinxInACalicoDress

I am post menopause. Prior to menopause I was a size 10. Now I'm a size 16 snug. Or a 14 vanity sizing. I know I am fatter than I should be. I have rolls and rolls. I look at myself on photos and am so wide. My BMI is 19. Go figure.

We need to put a stop to vanity sizing for starters. Two summers ago, I bought some t shirts from H&M. Had to have XL and they are snug. This year, same t shirt I bought XL and you could fit 4 of us inside. That, in the long run does nobody any favours.

We need to stop justifying being overweight and accusing people of fat shaming. We need to start taking responsibility for what we do to our bodies. And I get irrationally angry with people who say to me "you don't need to lose weight"because I know they are lying and they know they are lying.

How the fuck are you size 16 with a BMI of 19?? That makes no sense.

@RoseTintedAtuin

BMI may be an decent indicator but it is not treated as such, it is treated as absolute rule. It is insufficient as a test giving you an accurate idea of whether you are overweight because it does not address body fat content, distribution and other factors which are related to health concerns linked to being overweight. As such it should be taken as an indicator whereby further investigation is undertaken if concerned. As for honesty, most people’s relationships with food are impacted by their mental state and “being honest” could send that person into a more difficult spiral. Not to mention honesty based on perception is highly subjective so no I think an artful swerve on the subject is often best unless there are acute health concerns.

That is actually an excellent point which hadn't occurred to me at all. Thank you for pointing that out.

Codename- exactly! I'm sitting here in my size 14 (M&S so super vanity) linen trousers and my size 18 M&S top. And my trews are digging in. Yet GP did the BMI thing and I was 19.
I'm 5' 9 but even so...I am an egg shape. Legs are fine. I'm basically Humpty.

I get told I'm tiny. I'm really not. I'm 5'8, bmi 23.3. , wide shoulders and widish fattish hips but smallish waist. In photos, I would say I look Amazonian. But because I'm tall, people see the overall effect as slim.

I grew up thinking I was enormous compared to other kids, but that was because I was 5'4 and in some of my 5'4 mum's clothes by the age 11/12.and I.didn't take scale into account. Looking back.at photos, I'm just gangly. I would like to be slimmer around the stomach and I know I need to eat less sugar and drink less alcohol.

I agree with you OP.

I've never been really slim, and I'm 5'4 but before children I was topend of my healthy weight. I'm very busty and curvy even at a healthy weight.

I piled on weight having two babies in three years. Went from 10st ish to 15. I had no idea I was so heavy and I cried when I finally plucked up the courage to get on the scales. 15st at 5'4 is huge.

I decided to lose weight and as soon as it started to come off I had comments about 'not going too far' and 'you're starting to look scrawny!' All I've done is exercise as much as I can and calories count, nothing fancy.

I've lost just over 2 stone since June, 3 more to go. I am still actually obese although I do look a million times better already. I'm not even halfway I'm a million miles from scrawny.

Tellingly, these comments have come from my mother (who has been obese since I was a child) and my friend who is similarly large after having children.

@Xiaoxiong that is a crazy amount of bias regarding you and your husband dieting. Have you gone so far as to point it out to people? If so, what were their responses?

But .... it’s not that easy to lose weight. This whole thread seems to ignore that. Or rather, it’s not that easy to lose weight and keep it off. A few years ago I lost a significant amount of weight but then after a while I couldn’t stick to my diet anymore and I regained all the weight and more.

And this is such a common experience. Research shows that our body and brain fights against weight loss in a number of ways.

It makes me reluctant to try again because I can’t face the idea of gaining the weight back and even more on top again.

The people in this thread talk about it like it’s easy to lose weight. It’s just not. I have seen other research that shows that only 5% of people who lose weight dieting keep it off in the long run. And that once you have a BMO of above 40 you have something like a 0.1% chance of becoming a healthy weight.

That’s why the Heath at any Size movement is so important. Because it’s about focusing on the behaviours such as eating well and exercising rather than weight loss per se.

Obesity is a complex issue. I don’t think it’s helpful to pretend it’s simple to solve.

We associate weight with beauty, rather than health. So it's hard to tell a friend that actually they have put on the pounds because what they will hear is that you are calling them ugly, rather than it being a dispassionate discussion about health.
There was thread on here yesterday (which got deleted) from a poster who said she didn't think any fat people were pretty. That's a lot to unpick in our society, do it's no wonder no one wants to tell their friends the truth!

I think BMI works as long as you're not borderline on either end. It says I'm overweight but I'm not (you would never have guessed by looking at me) and even at my thinnest I was never a proper low BMI (and I was a size 4). Body fat % is a much better tool