Should we be more honest about weight?

[LockdownLoser]

A friend of mine has put weight on, she checked her BMI and is firmly in the overweight category.

Now in a large size 12, bordering on a 14 she is not huge by any stretch of the imagination and is probably the slim one at work, amongst her friends etc.

She posted on Facebook how much of a shock it is and how she has always been the skinny one.

Queue people falling over themselves to say how BMI is rubbish, how there's nothing of her, how she should ignore it as she is the size of one of their thighs and so on.

Now she does look great, and I have told her so whilst suggesting a few exercise classes we could do together IF she wants to lose the extra couple of pounds, but when does body positivity become dangerous?

BMI is not just made up figures? It's based on something and serves a purpose, being overweight does come with health risks.

So when do we be honest and say actually yes you could do with losing a couple of pounds for the sake of your health, let's do it together. Instead of saying oh the medical guidance is rubbish, you look fantastic.

All this, well you are smaller than me so have a biscuit seems like encouraging each other in the race to become unhealthy.

healthier not heavier!

@Hardbackwriter

What did you comment on her post, OP? If nothing, then doesn't that tell you exactly why people didn't say something more honest - for the same reason as you?

I said, "it's a shock isn't I, I felt the same last year! We have all gotten bigger together so you still are the skinny girl and look great so if you change anything, do it for health reasons"

Then I sent her a WhatsApp suggesting some different exercise stuff we could do together all of which she had a reason to dismiss so I took the hint and left it at that.

I would've totally ignored her Facebook post to be honest.

If she's serious about wanting to lose weight, why wouldn't she just quietly do something about it like most people?

People who tend to post these things on social media generally just want the 'reassuring' replies that she got, including from you.

I think part of the problem is that as a society we equate being fat with essentially being a bad person - lazy, sloppy, lacking self discipline or ambition, worthless etc.

Many people also feel that it's perfectly acceptable to bully people for it under the guise of 'concern' and seem to think that fat people are stupid because the don't realise they are fat and it's unhealthy. All of which is total bollocks

While we continue to judge people's personal attributes by their size, of course it is an emotive subject - as a result saying to someone (however objectively) that they are fat, is loading all of this other negative bullshit on them too. No one is going to react well to that

Another one of these. Your nickname shows your agenda. It's another stealth boast, virtue signalling, moral superiority thread. And no, I'm not obese and have lost 15kgs since the beginning of the year. Still wouldn't use a so-called friend to grandstand on the internet about how great I am and how she's fat.

OP, it is not about having the wrong kind of number on the scales. BMI is a very blunt and often useless tool. What does matter is the amount of visceral fat the person carries (yes, the people with dangerous amounts of visceral fat CAN be “good” weight well within the healthy range). Muscle mass to body fat ratio is another extremely important health indicator. And other indicators, more medical, such as level of triglycerides, cholesterol readings etc Yes, slim people with fat in the wrong places CAN be just as susceptible to metabolic type disorders. Ever heard of TOFI (thin on the outside, fat on the inside)? It is a medical term to describe slim people suffering from all the “fat people’s“ ailments, such as high blood pressure, raised blood sugar, diabetes, inflammatory conditions? Them being “the right” weight did not preclude them from the above, see Dr Michael Mosley who was diagnosed with T2 diabetes despite always having lean physique.

On the other hand, there is also such a medical term as ‘metabolically healthy obese people’. Indeed, research shows that the best BMI wrt long-term health outcomes is actually 26-27, not under 25.

It is so individual. For some (petite) people BMI 23-25 will be the threshold for developing health conditions, for others the weight they can carry and be healthy is much greater.

It is really is not a blanket rule. I wish they retired this crp now and started measuring risks properly on a more tailored basis. There is a great variance in tolerance wrt body weight and it matters most where* the fat is stored.

The way women talk to each other about weight and appearance is very odd. I am the fat one in my group of friends. Everyone else ranges from size 6 to 14 and I am size 20. I'm not bothered by appearance and if I say I have put on some weight I am not looking for reassurance but that's what I always get! A few of my friends are always on diets and complaining about their thighs/tummy etc but they never really put on weight but they seem very unhappy with their bodies. Yet I am so much bigger and they tell me I look great and ask if I have lost weight everytime I see them even when I have clearly put it on! So bizarre.

And yes I know I need to lose weight for health reasons and am working on it.

I didn't mean to bold that last bit

I think this is a UK cultural/mindset problem. Im in another eu country where im one of the largest among my colleagues and friends. Back home its the exact opposite. They call me a twig, but im a 14 and overweight according to bmi.
Sometimes in the uk i fit into a 12. Sometimes i need an eu 42, never ever a 38. Plus there just seems to be a bit more room around the waist in uk clothes, which is why I like shopping there.
I can never imagine ending the night with a burger and chips at 4am, having already eaten dinner and about to go to bed. If i go on a night out with uk friends, it's like it belongs to the ritual. You couldn't possibly wait in the taxi queue without a bag of chips in your hand.
I remember a colleague from the uk came over to visit our office. My other colleague mentioned how she was the fattest person she had ever seen. For me, it wasn't even that far.
Sometimes I don't like it here when people get all judgemental about looks. But I also don't like going home and being accused of being anorexic, which im clearly not. I could meet comments like "you need to eat a good dinner Catbear" with "and you need to skip a few" but everyone knows in the uk that it only goes one way. Taking offense to being called skinny or mentioning someone's weight gain is a fast way to lose friends. Best just to keep quiet and smile, and keep working towards your own personal health goals.
If you need encouragement, get a fitbit or a garmin.

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

Another one of these. Your nickname shows your agenda. It's another stealth boast, virtue signalling, moral superiority thread. And no, I'm not obese and have lost 15kgs since the beginning of the year. Still wouldn't use a so-called friend to grandstand on the internet about how great I am and how she's fat.

I think the thread has clearly touched a nerve with you.

I have said a few times in thread that I have struggled with my own weight.

And I have also said that my friend is not huge, she looks great but her post and the responses got me thinking about this kind of thing in general.

The fact that so many other people have said it is something they have experienced shows that it is not specific to my friend. I have pointed out that I have been subjected to it also which helped me not realise how big I had gotten.

If you equate weight with how good or bad someone is then you are exactly part of the problem that we are discussing and the reason why we can't be more honest with our loved ones.

BMI works for the vast majority of the population and is particularly helpful as a risk tool for the NHS.

Deniers are just looking for excuses to not accept that their weight could negatively affect their health.

I get that self-worth is a huge part of self-care, especially when it comes to diet and exercise, so I'm not a fan of body shaming BUT I'm also not a fan of Insta posts from size 26 girls in crop tops claiming to be healthy because they go to the gym! It's just ridiculous.

And yes, I'm a big girl (a big girl desperately trying to bring down my BMI so Covid doesn't kill me!).x.

From the NHS website:

www.nhs.uk/news/obesity/bmi-categories-may-need-adjusting-argue-researchers/

It's an interesting discussion. I think we need to use BMI as a helpful indicator in identifying people who need to lose weight and separate the weight loss from the appearance.

BMI should be seen as a figure like bloodpressure. But Its become such an emotive issue. I was called out for fat shaming when I said I want to lose weight because of Covid risks. So now anyone mentioning weight is fat shaming. I'm BMI 33. I need to be 29. Saw a tv programme that said BMI under 30 is ok and that there aren't that many more health benefits and that is enough to reduce risks. I need to be 29 to get tmedical treatment. I hate the word 'fat' to describe a person. Let's call it obese.

The NHS need to take action and make it as high profile as stopping smoking was 20 years ago.

Anyway I decided the other day I don't mind of people think I'm overweight as long as they think I'm stylish and have good taste. .

@CatbearAmo Unfortunately the UK has followed the US in this regard - as a country we have a dreadful relationship with food and it shows in our waistlines and Diabetes statistics. The days of home cooked, fresh foods based family meals, eaten together, without snacking, are gone for most of us. Convenience foods rule and it's only going to get worse with the introduction of US imported foods, full of high fructose syrups and additives.

We are further away from the healthy French/Mediterranean mindset to food than ever.

Yes we need to be more honest about weight. We also need to stop putting the burden women almost exclusively to be healthier and lose weight.

Case in point -everytime a female celebrity is overweight or obese and not shy, retiring or self deprecating the focus is how they are glamourizing obesity, while we simultaneously have overweight men like Piers Morgan and Jeremy Clarkson on TV and noone says the same about them.

People are not stupid. There is so much faux concern in regards to women when they are overweight but almost none to men until they literally tip into morbidly obese and even then not so much.

Weightloss is not sudden either. Body positivity is about loving yourself including eating well and exercising no matter your size. Criticism of people being body positive as encouraging obesity is a simplistic stupid argument. Are fat people not supposed to love themselves until they are a size 8? This can take months or years to achieve so people should just hate themselves until they reach this magical number?

I would argue body positivity is necessary for many people to lose weight because it means seeing value in yourself beyond your body size- which actually leads to people treating their body with more respect and eating better and exercising more.

Yes I think weight shouldn’t be taboo. So many are offended if someone comments or take offence when others don’t agree that a size x is small etc.

Many seem unaware of what a healthy weight actually is for both adults and children.

@QuestionableMouse

BMI isn't the best guide ever as it fails to account for many body types.

The healthy range is actually wide so I would say that it does take into consideration different body types.

For instance, I'm 5'1 and the healthy range for someone my height is anywhere from 98lbs to 132lbs. IMO that's quite a big range and takes things like differing body shapes, muscle mass and bone structure into consideration.

[quote OneOrangeTwoLemons]From the NHS website:

www.nhs.uk/news/obesity/bmi-categories-may-need-adjusting-argue-researchers/[/quote]
That is an interesting link and something I would like to read more about.

I completely agree OP. Being fat is so acceptable now that its the normality. Loads of posts on here where someone will say they are a size 16, and another poster will say that isn’t fat. It’s not helpful at all.

I currently have a BMI of just over 25 (thanks to lockdown eating!). I still fit in a size 10 (just!) but I am overweight. I know I am overweight. I have a muffin top and wobbly arms and legs. I plan to sort it out and lose a stone and start exercising again. If I know I am overweight then why can’t people who are size 14,16,18,20 see that they are fat? It’s now known that overweight/obese people do suffer severe effects from Covid more often, why can’t people take this as a sign that its time to do something about their diet to help themselves? Baffles me.

I think the thread has clearly touched a nerve with you.

Don't flatter yourself, dear. These threads are legion, all boring AF, all using someone else, some 'friend' to virtue signal about oneself under the pretext of 'concern' or 'debate'. Comparison is the thief of joy. Wisdom is finally learning to live for oneself, you do you and leave others to do them. It's a waste of life to do otherwise but hey, it's one's life to do as they please with.

I still fit in a size 10 (just!) but I am overweight. I know I am overweight. I have a muffin top and wobbly arms and legs. I plan to sort it out and lose a stone and start exercising again. If I know I am overweight then why can’t people who are size 14,16,18,20 see that they are fat?

Maybe they do know and have some vague future plan to deal with it, just like you?

YANBU at all

We just need to take the emotion out of weight, but the question is how to do it when so much of our self image, and therefore emotion towards ourselves, is bound up with weight?

If we can just work out how to be happy with ourselves first, size 10 or size 18, and then stay happy whilst becoming a healthy weight, we'd have it cracked!

But so much of our self-worth is bound up with those labels in our clothes or the numbers on the scales.

mainly slim ladies are friends and mainly larger ladies are friends

What? Most people choose their friends based on common interests and liking them, not whether they are a similar clothes size...

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

I think the thread has clearly touched a nerve with you.

Don't flatter yourself, dear. These threads are legion, all boring AF, all using someone else, some 'friend' to virtue signal about oneself under the pretext of 'concern' or 'debate'. Comparison is the thief of joy. Wisdom is finally learning to live for oneself, you do you and leave others to do them. It's a waste of life to do otherwise but hey, it's one's life to do as they please with.

I haven't even mentioned my weight, bmi, activity level so You are wrong on that point. I have mentioned that I have been borderline obese but for all you know I could have gone from 29 to 27.

There is also no comparison going on. The question is simple- if someone brings up their weight, should we be honest and encourage them to develop healthier habits or should we deny the issue and reassure them that it is fine and the medical guidances doesn't apply to them.

Everyone else seems to have grasped the basis of the thread so I don't think it is unclear.