How do I stop unintentionally offending my friends?

[ninjaturtle000]

Thoughts please, be as blunt as you like.

I'll try to keep this short but I will give background for context.

I have a small group of close friends who have been in my life for 20+ years. We're the same age. Our lives have all been fairly similar but my financial situation has improved over the last few years, while theirs hasn't and I feel it's starting to cause issues even though I do not discuss money.

So my situation is that I am now a stay at home mother. Before that, I worked FT and in a fairly well paid job for my age and experience (higher rate taxpayer). Before we had the children we saved really hard, sold our starter home and bought a 4 bed family home for quite a good price. It's shot up
in value since (although I expect that will take a hit!). DH has a really good job and earns really well. He works his bum off, and is out of the house 7-7 in normal times (currently WFH). We decided to have two children because we knew we could afford that comfortably.

We don't struggle for money but we are very sensible. We drive old second hand cars, don't holiday abroad, shop at Aldi etc. On the other hand, if I want to buy the children some nice clothes (nothing excessive, places like Frugi etc) then I do and don't worry about it.

In my friendship group we have another sahm with a high earning partner but they have lots and lots of debt and are renting. They have five children and find it tough financially. Another is a nurse, homeowner with three children with an average earning partner, they do ok I think. One is a civil servant, homeowner with three children and another average earning partner, again I think they do ok and the other is a secretary with a low earning partner, own home and four children.

As I said, I don't talk about money. But recently I've had quite a few comments which have been really off, and it's starting to bother me. I don't know if it's something I'm doing, or not.

For example, our group chat the other week one was really suffering with her skin. Asked for skincare recommendations. I sent a photo of what I use, and immediately got comments of "huh well we can't all afford that!" (It's nothing excessive, again, mid range I think it was £18). Didn't think much of it.

I put a photo on FB of my children playing in the sand the other day and got comments about how I let them messy play in expensive clothes (they were from Next) and that I must be made of money.

I went for a socially distanced walk with two of them yesterday and I had a new handbag. I didn't mention it, they did and asked where it was from. Told them Boden and I said I'd got it in the sale reduced from £100 to £30 but they didn't really listen just said how nice it must be to be able to buy leather bags willy nilly especially when I don't work!

We were discussing ordering the children's school uniform the other day as one mum has a child just starting at school. I agreed that is bloody expensive etc. Asked where I got trousers from, I said Next as I find they wash and wear well. Cue shouts of "what a waste of money, nothing wrong with supermarket clothes, don't be such a snob!".

What I haven't told them is that we've recently come into a substantial early inheritance. It's enough that we will be able to buy a significantly bigger house in a nicer area and some land with no problems and that is what we plan to do. Another friend is also moving house (buying a bigger one) and I said that we're moving too (didn't say a word about upsizing etc) and again it started "you can't possibly need a bigger house, your house is huge" (it not, it's just a normal semi) "you've only got two children why do you need more space it's ridiculous think of us all crammed into a three bed" (we don't need extra space per se but it's an investment) .

My figure was also commented on yesterday. I've been carrying 4st of extra weight since I had my children. We've had a tough time of it with health problems with one child and I've been lacking the motivation to sort myself out. Since lockdown I've lost 3 of the 4 stone. Again I didn't mention it, but when I saw them there was a "wow, look at you that's great" followed by "you're going to get so scrawny, how have you managed that don't you eat any more? Are you taking diet pills?" I am still a stone overweight I'm nowhere near scrawny (or even slim!).

Aside from this I have no issue with these friends. We share a lot, we're close and we have been for a very long time. I just seem to offend or annoy them just by living my life quietly. I know there is a difference in our financial situations and I'm mindful of it. I don't show off, I wouldn't dream of suggesting we go to an more expensive place to eat/drink etc. It's always commented on when I buy a drink as I only really like a certain type of red wine (my days of drinking shots are done!) and apparently it's 'posh'. I don't like alcohol much, but I do like a glass of red. Who cares? I'm not bothered how much money my friends do or don't have.

One of the working friends said the other day in our group chat said that sahms need to be careful because we're going to be "screwed when we're old because we'll have no pensions". I agreed it was a risk but said we pay into a pension for me so I wasn't worried and I got back "of course you do, Mrs sensible, I bet you've got life insurance and a will too!" (I have, LI is a condition of the mortgage and surely a will is sensible?!).

Some of our being comfortable is down to pure luck (the early inheritance). Some of it is down to sensible financial decisions, saving hard, not getting into debt and keeping our family small. But I'm constantly being made to feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Am I?

Just reply to everything with "I know,right?" and a big grin.

Or the grownup version

" I don't understand why you always have to comment on my income/lifestyle. My choices are my own and while I realise I'm very fortunate I don't think they should be up for debate or ridicule."

Or the annoying version

"Why do you think/say that?" and repeat.(this one works best)

I had this; a whole group of friends seemingly ganging up on me because I had moved up an income bracket. I had slaved away working 2 jobs to pay for my degree, landed a job in finance paying good money and subsequently met my fiance who earns even better money.

We also live in a very small 1 bed property which is cheap to run so have high salaries and low outgoing so plenty of disposable income. We know we are very lucky but we don’t brag. However, you can’t just not answer when friends ask you what holiday plans you’ve got, despite the fact that it was instantly met with cries of “way to make the rest of us feel bad” or “lucky you”, despite the fact that they had asked and I had given them a very simple one word answer simply giving the country!!!

I then realised that I was basically the group scapegoat. When I was working double shifts to pay for uni and turned down nights out I was the bore, the swat, the geek, no fun. When my choices translated into fortunate circumstances I became the rich one, the posh one etc. No of it pleasant.

Eventually I realised I had nothing in common anymore and they weren’t being good friends by constantly negatively referring to my financial state. I would never infer that their jobs (admin, teaching assistant) were in some way inferior so why was it okay for them to do it to me, just because the earnings scale was flipped? What kind of friends can you not discuss holiday/house moves/life changes with for fear of repercussions? I’ve ended the friendship and don’t miss it.

By contrast I was another friend whose partner and herself both work in a supermarket. Money is simply never an issue. We take turns choosing locations to eat out; neither of us ever choses something super expenses anyway and neither of us has an issue with saying “oh end the month, money a bit tight can we just have a coffee at yours instead?” It doesn’t matter than money is tight for me because we paid off a fancy holiday that week but it’s tight for her because they are on less wages. Neither of us value of friendship in financial terms. We discuss our shared interests, I support her in trying to monetise her hobby and always try and be a good cheer leader and she always asks me if I have any good holiday plans or have progressed with our home repairs. Balance!

Very telling that they comment about weight too.
I was the slimmest in the group- naturally have a small appetite and enjoy being active, my hobby is running. I became the “skinny bitch”, was never allowed to comment on clothes I might have bought without a backlash.

The final straw was when getting ready for another friend’s wedding, she asked me to zip her dress up, which I did with a smile and complimented how she looked. I turned and said “oh can you pop mine up too” and she flounced off and disappeared whilst another friend commented how dare I ask her to do such a thing when she was so self conscious about her own weight. I was well aware of her struggles and had tried to support the friend by supporting her in her exercise regime and complimenting her when she made progress but what kind of friend was she if she couldn’t even help me with a zip without over laying her own feelings? The real nail in the coffin was the third friend laying in to me as if her reaction was normal and that I should have not only predicted it but also known it was horrendously out of order. All these friends know I have ASD and am the first to apologise any social faux pas but I really don’t think I was unreasonable here.

Ultimately once you become the group scapegoat it’s very difficult to change the dynamic, especially when it creeps over into other parts of life! I would go for a very blunt raising of the issue and if they don’t get it, move on and find a more balanced group!

Oh op, i realise im in the same situation as you but with a work colleague. And as everyone has said, you need to create some distance. They arent good for you. Even if you lost all your money, they'd rub it in your face. P.s, never heard of Frugi. Thought it was a yoghurt brand. Very cute clothing!

My take on this is that one of the group has money worries and is very sensitive about it. She may have confided in the others how it upsets her and maybe it's become a problem. I could also be completely wrong. The only way to find out what's going on is to talk openly and honestly about it, tell them it makes you feel bad and ask them if you've offended them and to explain why.

Something I’ve realised as I’ve gotten older is that just because you were incredibly close friends in the past, doesn’t insure that you will absolutely remain at that same level of closeness forever.

In the past I’ve really struggled with coming to terms with the fact that some the relationships with my ‘ride or die‘ friends had changed (no ones fault in particular) into something more toxic. And I had to keep reminding myself that these were my best friends weren’t they? But they were making me feel like shit! It was very hard to reconcile but once I realised that and started to withdraw for my own mental health, I felt soooo much better.

Don’t put up with people making you feel bad about yourself just because you’ve got a long history as friends. It’s sad but it happens and you need to look after yourself.

You could try just calmly speaking to them about it. Like ‘I’m not sure if I’m doing something to offend you but when you say XYZ it really makes me feel bad about myself and I feel I need to be careful what I say when I’m around you which is making me sad’.
If they care about you they’ll be upset that they’ve made you feel this way. And if you get the opposite reaction then you know they’re not your friends anymore.

Going to agree with the posters who say you need new friends.

For whatever reason, maybe because you don't bite back, you have become the group's "whipping boy" (scapegoat, yes).

They are envious, and they are indulging in Tall Poppy Syndrome (where they cut you down to size if they think you're getting above yourself - and them!) and it's all very petty and immature.

Maybe things are not all rosy for them in their lives, and they're taking their frustrations out on you because you seem to "have it all" - but do you really want friends who resent you for having done well? Because they're not really friends if they do - real friends support you and are happy for you in your good fortune, and there for you in your bad fortune.

I would distance yourself from them, and if they ask why (IF) then tell them that you're tired of them using you as their whipping boy/scapegoat all the time.

Ditch them they’re all jelly

Based on your title I was all ready to come on and say think before you speak but these women have such big chips on their shoulders you should post them big containers of salt and vinegar.

This feels like bullying. They aren't friends.

Frenemies is the term I’d use for these people.... it sounds like you’ve seriously outgrown the friendships and it’s time to move on. It’s tedious and I certainly wouldn’t put up with it from my so called friends - I’ve had to pretty much cut a very close friend off for this sort of thing, only her comments were double loaded as she’d then throw her abundant fertility in my face as a double jab knowing I’ve still not emotionally recovered from a still birth 11 years ago and my continued PTSD had been so bad that I can’t even contemplate TTC..... “Oh well when you’ve got two children you can’t afford things like that”, “Oh I couldn’t bring myself to waste money on a house like yours, being a mother is far more important to me than having a fancy house” etc etc.!

One of my colleagues is really catty and jealous, she makes shitty comments towards two of us about how “loaded” we are, how they couldn’t have afforded x, y & z at our age etc. It’s not like we’re bringing in caviar for lunch either, it’s always innocuous things like a restaurant we might suggest to each other (usually because there’s great access as we both have disabilities) or a new skincare item one of us has tried. It’s pure jealousy and I’ve learnt to just say “I know, right” to all the remarks, I’ve started to take great glee in being a total knob about it now as it infuriates her to not be able to put me down

I have similar issues and I just ignore it now. You can't win or change their minds.

I agree it's fuelled on jealously rather than in reality.

They sound hugely jealous and this is manifesting in bitchy comments; nothing you're doing wrong as far as I can see.
Agree with PP early on re pointing out each comment and letting them know how it makes you feel. If you get negativity back, I'd move on from that circle.

I don't think it will magically go away.
It gets worse if anything as you get older and head for pension age.

I think you need to politely but firmly call them out on this. And if they don't stop it, you need to move on. None of the history means anything if they aren't a positive force in your life.

I also think next is expensive to buy children clothes from!

You need to find a new friendship group I am afraid. I find as finances change, so does your support network. I am in a professional job, earning a fair wage...because of that I meet more people that earn a similar income and I have made new friends.

I am not saying your friends must all have the same income but I do think for many it is a issue when it comes to class. I wouldn't want a friendship with someone 'rich' it just make me feel bad. Just being honest here.

They are knobs - I buy uniform from next too OP and we are in no way high earners.

You've known each other for a long time. Your life has changed and moved on and theirs havent either financially or attitude wise it sounds.
Just because you have known people for a long time, it doesn't mean your relationships will always be the same. It sounds like you have become a more mature person whilst they are still behaving as the younger them. I would spend a lot less time with them and find some new friends as well to help balance up the people who you are surrounded by. You will probably have a nice change
It sounds as though your current friends are very jealous and talk about you behind your back, I'd question whether they are now just people you spend spare time with it people you really look forward to seeing?

Op it's a horrible feeling that whenever you open you mouth something is going to be coming back at you like that.

It will be hard to say something, they are setting their stall out and no matter how Nicely you put it their going to take offence.

Is there one you could speak to or at least sound out about it?

When it comes to the house in particular a simple "can't you be happy for me" should be enough.

These friends sound like my sisters, whom I am stuck with! I would not be calling these people friends when I can just walk away.

In the short term I suggest that you say "Ooh, don't remember" if asked where something comes from. Be vague when asked where you buy clothes/skincare items and where you intend to go on holiday. Essentially, give away as little of yourself as possible. Express sympathy if that appears to be what's wanted but muted terms, so you're not accused of looking down at them.

You may not think the above sounds like much of a friendship, and you'd be right! Could help as a short term measure though.

I find the best way to solve this is to remove myself from the situation. Nothing dramatic. Just be less available and gradually fade away until you disappear altogether.

Friendships change and life develops. Nothing stays the same. You just need to let go of things that no longer serve you and find friends that are a better fit for the person you now are.

Close friends? Could you just say 'ouch' or 'what's up with the comments about money'. Your spending habits are not out of line with their incomes.

Actually I wonder if the real problem is they fear you are drifting away, and unfortunately your 'trying to live my life quietly' and 'trying not to offend' rather reinforces this. Can you try relaxing again and being yourself as much as possible, unedited and yes perhaps vulnerable. Then you can hopefully get past this issue. There might be a bust up but if you have all been through a lot this could be repaired.

OP, if you feel like you have to start justifying yourself because you bought school uniforms from NEXT! then they are the problem. I got nothing against Next, but there are hardly an upmarket provider and hardly save you any money compared to Tui or other.

You should be able to put your kids to private school and buy their uniforms from private providers if you wanted to, without your "friends" putting your down. A bog standard Next or M&S uniform is really nothing to even comment on, or even be jealous. They are nuts.

THEY are the problem, not you.

It's all perfectly summarised in the you've only got two children why do you need more space it's ridiculous think of us all crammed into a three bed. Only someone really bitter would pipe up with that nonsense. It's hardly extravagant to not want to be stuck in a semi if you can afford not to.

If your "friends" are bringing you down, they are not your friends. Fine to feel a bit of jealousy, they are human, but not acceptable to be bitchy to your face constantly.

They don’t sound very kind or supportive. Think you need to call them out - you don’t have to get into justifying it by saying eg we can afford it or we worked hard for it, but you can say that’s unkind and it hurts my feelings ....

They aren’t friends. Friends don’t make mean comments like that. As for your house- so fcking what if you only have two kids? There’s no law that says your house size must reflect the children you have! If you want a bigger house and can afford it that’s totally up to you and there is no legitimate moral outrage here.
They are jealous. Very very very jealous and it’s seeing out like poison. I agree that you should challenge every comment and not let it slide. I have a lot of designer bags and I love using them. I do t brag about them or ever talk about them but I’m damned if I’d let someone make me feel guilty for enjoying a purchase I bought with money I bloody worked for. No way. You need to tell them to stop this because it’s unkind, mean, and unnecessary. If they don’t stop after you’ve told them it’s hurtful then you’ll know for sure they do t give a crap about your feelings and they aren’t real friends.