Help explain non-gendered clothes to DM & MIL?

[NewbieMumma]

Please can someone help me and DH formulate a neat phrase to explain to my mother and my MIL why my DH and I do not want gendered gifts and clothes for our new baby? We don't know the gender yet (due in a couple of days) and we have bought gender neutral baby grows and things. We want to maintain this once the baby is here, and not dress them in overtly blue dinosaurs or pink hearts, and slogans etc. This is all in line with our views and how we try to carry out our roles at home. Both MIL and DM are very old fashioned and were very 1950's style wives and mothers, which was their choice but not the way we live.

As generous as it is of the GPs to want to buy the baby clothes, we tried to casually say "nothing too gendered please" mainly so that it wasn't a waste of their money. However we have been met with constant resistance and questions. Eg "surely once you know the sex you'll be buying blue / pink"? "What if they are a girly girl" etc etc, "what is he loves trucks"? "It's so sad / cruel" etc!

I find it so time consuming to explain why I don't want to dress my child in "daddy's little princess" type stuff which only promotes gender role stereotypes in a tiny child who has no inclination towards any of this and no knowledge of patriarchy at first. I know there's only so much we can do and it won't be long before we start to see our child influenced by the patriarchal society is is immersed in, but I think it's reasonable for us to do what we can to balance the scales a little bit whilst the child is in their home environment, through books, toys, clothes, critical thinking and choice of language etc etc.

My mother and MIL just can't get it and say that we will struggle as the shops only sell girls clothes and boys clothes. DH answers his mum's comments with sensible rational reasons why our choice makes sense and tries to get her head around the concept, but she keeps on asking, or texting us photos of "cute" clothes, eg pink tutu dresses. We are also choosing not to dress the baby in "outfits" (dresses, jeans etc) mainly due to simplicity, and she's also questioning that alongside.

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about something quick we can say that explains our pov and helps us make our point? Or do we just give up trying to explain?

I know I'm very probably way over thinking (tired and hormonal) and should just say a firm "that's our choice", but it irks me that they are trying to cajole us and that at this rate we will be gifted a bunch of stuff we don't want to give to our baby.

I often wonder on these threads why advertisers bother targeting children? Apparently children are completely unaffected by outside social influences.

Their vaginas will just naturally gravitate them towards pink glittery tat

Hi OP,

My Daughter is 18 months now and we were exactly the same. Once she was born we did get an influx clothes that weren't quite our taste, but as a few posters have said now people have started to see our style and the clothes we tend to buy they have generally fitted in with that. She wears all the colours under the sun, including pink, and all kinds of patterns and styles, dresses, leggings, jeans and things. We do still try to avoid anything with slogans as find they mainly push what we think to be negative gender stereotypes.

I also had a bit of a problem with lots of people buying her dresses when she first learnt to crawl, which really hampered her physical development, so had a few awkward conversations with GPs that just for a short while we wanted to avoid them completely as she just couldn't wear them without falling on her face (other babies her age didn't seem as hampered but they really affected her). We're always very aware that we're lucky to have parents that want to buy our little one clothes, and always make sure we show our gratitude. It's a fine balancing act, but as you say, you don't want loads of stuff bought and wasted.

They don't have any physical stores but wanted to really recommend Lindex for baby clothes - www.lindex.com/uk/baby/view-all?page=1 they are a bit expensive, but often have sales and 3 for 2 deals. Lots of really lovely neutral, colourful and patterned clothes. We've got another baby on the way and love the fact that lots of things our daughter has worn our next will be wearing too, whatever the sex.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all and we had many conversations about this with grandparents/wider family too, but in the end they will just buy what they want and how much you then use those gifts is up to you. The second hand baby clothes market is huge, so you can always pass anything you don't like onto another family who will get lots of use out of it.

Good luck with your new arrival, the emotions definitely can start running high and it's always worth remembering they are just showing their love and care for the new baby, even if not quite how you want them to :)

Tell them you have decided to dress your children in Scandinavian clothing only and can they buy only from those brands. Villervalla, Maxomorra, Sture & Lisa, Småfolk etc all have simple colourful children's clothes without stupid slogans or princess frills.

@Smegmaballet

We were the same and have continued with it, it is not PFB, it's sane parenting.

We have three children none of whom fall into the "little men just love diggers" and "precious pink pretty girl" category [puke] We stick to bright colours and buy from either side of the aisle for all of them. Rainbows and sequins are loved by all as are dinosaurs etc. Those things are fun for children.

Thank you!

This is a breath of fresh air!

You want non gendered clothes but at the same time are creating illusions that pink is for girls and blue is for boys.

No, the OP is saying that it clearly shouldn't be the case, so please don't only try and dress her child up in pink.

Of course, boys can wear pink. The Op isn't trying to rip the pink clothes out of her parents hands because they are trying to buy it for a boy.

They is nothing wrong with girls wearing some pink or boys wearing some blue.

It's the colour coding them so they only wear certain colours and that the girls are then pressured to only want "girl" things regardless of the practicality of them.

I agree with FizzyGreenWater - that's is how I handled it with my parents and inlaws. I just said I hated clothing with words/slogans of any kind, plus I thought anything decorated/elaborate was tacky, and basically just liked plain colours and styles and comfortable clothes. This is how I dress, so I think they could understand that.

I did try and explain the politics too, but I think people are often (strangely) more respectful of other people's style/taste than they are of beliefs/principles.

Don't let it upset you.

I was like this when mine were born - MIL had only had boys so was excited about girls and girly stuff. I got my knickers in a twist about things that were overtly GIRL! in the beginning, but instead of saying

"I/we don't want horrible pink/blue sex-reductive tat for our baby" (which demeans the gift-giver's taste and is rude).

it's actually much more productive to say -

There is an XYZ we've seen at ABC shop - here's a photo and the link - if you were thinking of buying some outfits for baby, we would absolutely love this - I can't stop thinking about it! It's so perfect!

OR

We're actually drowning in babygros and outfits for the first year, but we do desperately need a pram, and because we want something that will last us through lots of grandchildren for you - boys and girls! - we really like this one [insert gender neutral link] - would you consider helping us out with it?

When the baby is a bit older you can say -

Little Tabitha LOVES playing with green things in particular - if you were thinking of Christmas presents, could you possibly keep an eye out for some? That gorgeous pink/purple glitter shit you got her last month has been completely ignored! Maybe this XYZ set? [link/photo] She really does love green wooden blocks!

I stated I would be keeping all the clothes for if I had another and as a result I have mainly neutral ones, although pale blue does feature heavily.
As ds got older and was standing up I switched to joggers and tee shirts. Morrisons have had some lovely woodland themes in rusts, green, mustards and creams and asda have had rust, navy and maroon joggers.
I've kept it as neutral as possible for 3 years so I can reuse everything. There are a few trucks, dinosaurs etc.
Anything I didn't like I took back and exchanged for something else.
Phrase it as being sensible and not having to buy clothing twice.

I agree with you in principle, OP, though tbh I hadn't really given this kind of thing much thought before I had my dd (now 14). I hate the lack of unisex clothes for older girls and the fact that parents and children still feel pushed into buying stereotypical children's clothes.

I think the best way forward is to buy/ask for clothes you like. And to realise that pushing your child away from pink frilly stuff is imposing an influence on her just as surely as pushing her into pink frilly stuff. Surely wearing a bit of everything is actually about as gender neutral as you can get?

My toddler/baby dd wore a mixture- some aimed at girls, much unisex. Age 5 she suddenly got into fairy dresses and pink. By 8 she loathed pink and has dressed pretty unisex ever since, even now she's a teenager. Throughout, I resisted attempting to influence her one way or the other, but I'm really glad she doesn't feel she has to shave her legs, wear make-up or skirts if she doesn't want to.

Allowing your baby to wear some 'girly' clothes will have literally no effect on how she grows up. So maybe it's worth thinking about who you're actually doing this for.

After the first few days you won't care as long as it's clean and dry!!

@GrumpyHoonMain

Whats the plan then if you don’t want outfits, that you’ll dress the baby in babygros until 3? While yes I agree that gendered clothing isn’t exactly progressive, banning all complete outfits like jeans / dresses / leggings etc just seems weird. And besides I think all you are doing really is buying into the stereotype of social misogyny that girls stuff is gendered but boys stuff can be unisex which is bullshit.

I disagree that it's "weird" to dress a newborn in babygros and not in full outfits. This is mainly down to practicality, and many previous posters have said they did the same.

Also I don't believe I said that boys clothes could be unisex but girls clothes couldn't be.

I would say that more importantly, make sure they aren't going 'aren't you handsome/beautiful' as soon as the child has any comprehension at all. The best thing we can do for kids is teach them that appearance is not an achievement and does not matter.

that way maybe, just maybe, the next generation will be not be waxing/botoxing/painting orange/pouting etc etc.

I found over time people saw the style we dressed out children in and would emulate that when buying for them.

It wierdly helped when DS had bad excema and we moved him to wearing organic clothes only. Frugi, Maxomorra, DUNS, smafolk, villervalla and a good section of H&M are organic on in unisex prints.

Maxomorra and duns are especially good. Nice primary colour unisex prints in every style, no different prints for girls and boys.

Worked well here as when DD2 arrived she wore all DS old organic cotton dungarees etc

Try to steer them away from buying clothes at all. Just accept what they do give, and send the odd picture, but keep saying "She seems comfiest in just Baby grows, so I mostly keep her in those" and "he loves anything with animal prints on"!

I found that MIL (the biggest source of frilly pink stuff) was happy to buy things with bunnies or elephants for DD, and lions or crocodiles for DS, so we steered her towards those.

You can always pass stuff on to charity or friends (or sell on FB). I discovered that one of my least "pink fluffy girly" friends was an absolute sucker for bright pink for her DD, which was handy for both of us!

OP if you want to give them a little nudge my family asked me to set up a wish list on Amazon. I just put things we liked, books clothes, toys etc and they chose bits here and there. They're grandparents they DESPERATLY want to buy you shit. Let them. But veer them towards your style. They will find cute things that they like and you like and everyone is happy. It will also give them ideas for the baby when they're in shops.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?tag=mumsnetforu03-21&nodeId=201936670

The best thing to do is to get a bit of everything and not limit them when it comes to clothes and toys. My belief is that it should all be available (within reason) because children change as they grow and they will be influenced by different things throughout.

I have a very gender neutral child (by accident) who went through stages of wanting to dress as a princess (very short stage) and others where she wouldn't put on a dress or skirt (only shorts and jeans) for years. She never liked dolls or playing house but she did love her train set and building things. When she got into Lego she would build cars, boats, forts etc. She's now a teenager and still very much not a girly girl nor is she a tomboy. She's somewhere in between.

@DopamineHits

And don't tell them the result of the gender scan. It just makes more work for you. Tell them you're keeping it to yourselves.

The baby is due in a couple of days and we don't know if it's a boy or a girl!

@DopamineHits

And don't tell them the result of the gender scan. It just makes more work for you. Tell them you're keeping it to yourselves.

From the OP is appears that the baby is due in a couple of days so they will find out soon enough.

@HoppingPavlova

While I admire your stance I’m dying for you to come back and post in 3 years when your child either wants a sparkly pink tutu dress or Spider-Man T shirt and has a massive tantrum in the store complete with head banging, thrashing and a vomit finale because you are insisting on a neutral grey T-shirt with no slogans. Or even if you avoid ever taking them to the shops, when they beg non-stop to have the same outfit as little Bobby, dressed like a Bob the Builder replica or Mandy who wears so much pink glittery stuff she has started to fart it. I’m sure you will be able to impart your philosophies to them no problems and they will play along nicely. Do let us know how you go with it.

It's a bit patronising to be honest. I've not discussed limiting choices once the child is older. The post was about a newborn.

just ask for unisex clothing there is lots of lovely stuff out there

I have 2 boys and a girl. My daughter is the youngest and wears lots of her brothers old baby stuff that’s still I’m good condition but also has her fair share of girl clothes too. My boys wear all colours including “girly” pink and purples. We’ve just brought them up to see everything as a colour and all toys as accessible no massive fuss about clothing colours and the need for unisex clothing thing. We brought them all their fair share of “boys” and “girls” clothes Yet they’re still well balanced and wear any colour and play with any toys

My eldest was train made his whole early years. I was surprised how it seems to be almost a natural thing for him. He had a wide range of toys but always wanted trains and cars 🤷🏻‍♀️ Now as an 8 yr old his favourite colour has moved from green to pink.

I agree that unisex clothes are easier to be reused by the next baby! Or gifted to other babies.

@FizzyGreenWater thank you! V helpful suggestions.

At the risk of jumping on the bandwagon here.
I totally get what you mean. When we had our daughter we didn't say non gender. We said no slogans, not too much pink and if you like something that's 'boys' get her it anyway.
She ended up with some horrific pink stuff (mostly unused except when said person was around) but also some really lovely boys stuff too.
She now loves fairies and trucks.
Happy medium.

How judgemental are these comments about what adults wish to do with their bodies. Can’t be allowed to wear certain clothing but can tell everyone else not to have Botox!

If I was a grandparent, I would probably just give you money op. You sound like hard work and I would not give presents of clothes. I have no doubt I would get it wrong and fall foul of the rules and then feel like shit. Not fun for anyone really. Just say money for a savings account would be great and then you can choose an ethical one that meets your standards.