Mum says I caused her divorce and I’m going to cause my own divorce too

[Molocosh]

My mum has told me I caused her divorce and if I don’t look sharp I’ll end up divorcing my own husband for the same reason.

My son (age 2) doesn’t sleep, never has. He never goes to sleep until at least 10-11pm, sometimes after midnight. We have no child free time without him. Each night one of us takes him to bed at 8pm and has to stay there for hours while the other watches tv downstairs then goes to bed alone. When he wakes up during the night I get in his bed with him and end up falling asleep. My mum often jokes that he’s her revenge on me because I never slept either.

Unsurprisingly we don’t get the chance to cuddle or kiss or have sex, or even make eye contact and talk, because we constantly have a child with us. Apparently he’s been whinging that I don’t have time for him. So my mum has told me that my dad used to say the same thing, and then he divorced her. She said I destroyed their relationship because I didn’t sleep for several years so they had no adult time together.

Needless to say I feel like shit because I’ve been told that I caused my parents’ divorce. And now I’m worried about my own marriage because I thought we were coping the best we can with a crap situation - but he’s obviously unhappy and I don’t see what I can do about it? I have a child glued to me round the clock and I have no choice about that?

What would he say if you moaned to his mum you arent getting enough of his time?

This sounds like over tiredness, maybe bring bedtime forward?

Your mum sounds toxic.

Your child sounds like he could possibly have high functioning autism or ADHD. Just because he is intelligent, doesn't mean he is NT. His behaviour is very concerning. Get him referred by your GP to a specialist for assessment. This process takes years so start it now.

And tackle the sleep routine as PP have said. Though if conventional techniques don't work, it could be because he is not NT so bear that in mind. Understanding if he does have additional needs is key to getting his sleep sorted.

And no naps after 1pm. Bed at 7pm. He is likely overtired at 8pm and too wired to sleep.

Best of luck. And demand your DH gets on board with an equal share of the load. It shouldn't be you exhausting yourself alone while he whinges 'what about me and my cock'

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz ‘s advice is spot on.

DS was like this at that age, we removed everything except his bed. It took a couple of weeks of hell to establish a routine but it worked.

If he bangs his head on the stair gate (or anything else) tie a duvet or thick blanket over the gate for cushioning.

www.safespaces.co.uk/choosing-your-product/

Dunno if you’ve seen these?
I know a few people who they have worked really well for. Their children wake and have some soft toys and things to play with If the parent needs to get some sleep. Though obviously they wouldn’t work for all children!

Have you heard of the Children's Sleep Charity op? They were set up by a patent whose child didn't sleep. They have training and a helpline and work with children with additional needs too as not sleeping properly is very common in some additional needs children.

Our children are the same they are 4 and 2, we've tried for years too. They get in our bed at night, usually both of them, they are around constantly. We get annoyed sometimes at the lack of time together, but we chose to have children and love them. We see the baby/child years as a period in time where it brings some of the best moments, but it also means that we come second to them.

Funnily I was exactly the same and as my mum says "you never slept for the first 5 years". My parents are still going strong after 40 odd years, they too saw our child years as a period in time, I'm one of 3 too and we were very spread out so they had YEARs of no time together, although my siblings slept better. You didn't cause your parent's divorce and your child won't cause yours either. This time will pass. I find it very hard some days but I know it's not forever, we are parents first now and a couple second, we don't have any issues with that though and are on the same page.

*Note I didn't give you any tips on trying to get your child to sleep, yeah we've tried it ALL.

I was saddened by the thought you don’t cuddle /kiss as your son is always there. That shouldn’t matter - it’s good for your son to see loving behaviour.

OP there’s an organisation called CEREBRA.

cerebra.org.uk/get-advice-support/

My children have ASD which is why I know about them but when undiagnosed I was told to contact this organisation, they work with children with brain conditions BUT they also offer help and support to children with sleeping difficulties.

They will send you a sleep diary to fill out, they are very helpful and friendly so it might be worth reaching out to them? They also have some information on their website regarding sleep that you can download.

Some practical help OP
The Evelina Children’s Hospital (part of St Thomas’) developed a sleep tracking app. It’s great and you can track how much sleep he’s actually getting. You can download a spreadsheet and print or email to the GP.

If you want any kind of proper help for sleep they will ask you to fill out a sleep diary first - so go armed with this already.

It will help to see how far you’ve come to look back on it too.

kidssleepdr.com/

@CatteStreet

Arrietty, I did wonder a little bit about that, but not enough to feel confident in suggesting it, iyswim. (My non-sleeping dd is NT and my slightly spectrummy middle child was the best sleeper of my lot! But the need for stimulation described here did make me wonder).

What the hell does "slightly spectrummy" mean?

She is either on the spectrum or not. This is as bad as saying "we're all on the spectrum somewhere..."

I can kind of see where your mum is coming from. Although it’s not the child’s fault of course. But often having children with sleep issues, high needs etc breaks your relationship. My children have definitely Inadvertently added to the destruction Of my marriage. I’d not tell them directly but now they are older than yours we do say how hard they are making our lives and that stress has knock on effects, like we are often tired and grumpy etc.

My oldest is 8 in Sept and like yours has not slept well. From birth. He goes to bed at 11-12pm every night in our bed. Ds2 is 6 in August and he also has never slept alone and had multiple night wakings till he started school. Dd is 3 and again she woke every 30-60 mins till she was 2. She now sleeps 11pm - 7-8am she has never slept alone or longer than 9 hours.

We tried sleep training but the only that worked for ds1 was melatonin. The HV and paediatrician told us to just leave him up and let him potter around all night (when he was 5) while we go to bed. But he’d be up til 2am if we did that.

I’d be pissed off that my H was moaning to my Mum rather than trying to discuss it with me. Have you ever discussed it together?

The power balance is all wrong here, and it looks like the imbalance is making you feel like you have no power at all. But you do.

a) with regard to your parents divorce, your mother has given you all the power. This is also 'all the responsibility'. If, as a child, your behaviour caused their divorce, then surely, by that logic, she would say your child's behaviour is going to cause your divorce? Your mother doesn't get to decide what you are and aren't responsible for. Do you think you're responsible for their divorce? I doubt it. And you're not. So you can stop believing her when she says that, because you have your own truth.

b) with your child's sleep, you are giving him all the power. But you're in charge, not him. You're the adult. His sleep pattern is your responsibility. He's too little to be choosing for himself. So, use your power. Try different methods, enlist help. Talk to your husband so that he understands, rather than being stroppy about it.

I have a DS of the same age and I’m convinced being very consistent and firm about routine is what helped us get him to sleep through from 7pm to 6am every day. He no longer naps during the day - so I have replaced his nap time with an hour of quiet time in his room where I read stories and we cuddle. Can you try this perhaps (forgive me if you’re already doing this - I’m just trying to be helpful) dinner at 5, bath at 6, into bed to lay down at 7pm? Put all toys away - maybe move them downstairs and just have books in his room and a few cuddlies in the bed? Check the temp of the room and consider a black out blind if you don’t already have one.

Also, it was wrong of your mum to say that to you. You were 2. You were not responsible for any marital strife - she and your dad were. I hope you know this. Find a friend to talk to who is supportive xx

You need some outside help here. Probably a sleep trainer. They are expensive but perhaps your mother will pay? She seems awfully involved and concerned about it, so I'm sure she'd be happy to help in any way that she can.

If she declines the suggestion then it would be a good time to tell her to butt out and mind her own.

'What the hell does "slightly spectrummy" mean?

She is either on the spectrum or not. This is as bad as saying "we're all on the spectrum somewhere..."'

'Slightly spectrummy', in this case, is shorthand for 'He (not she) has traits which are shared by people with autistic spectrum conditions, which do make him distinctly untypical in some ways, while other traits are not typical or people with an ASC and he does not meet the threshold for a diagnosis'.

Not that I needed to answer a question asked in such an aggressive tone, especially not considering its distraction from the issue at hand (the OP's). Do you have anything to contribute to the thread which might actually help the OP?

1 Your Mum is totally out of line to say that you caused her divorce. You didn't and her comment says more about her than about you. Don't feel guilty.

2 You must hire a babysitter (when Coronavirus allows) and set up a regular date night with your dh. Go to the cinema, go to the pub... Do something pleasurable together so you have time to properly connect again. I know your Mum and MIL can't babysit, but you need to find a local teenager you can rely on, or hire one from an agency. We used agency babysitters for years, they were mostly ex-nannies and really nice, reliable ladies who saved my mental health.

3 I know it's easier said than done, but you need to tackle your ds's sleep problem. Other people on here have given recommendations for sleep clinics, etc. You need a strict routine and don't get into bed with him when he cries, he needs to learn to soothe himself back to sleep.

I have first hand experience of what you are going through, the sleep issues with your child, having no adult time together, the effect it has on your marriage. What I will say first of all is that if your marriage is strong and you are meant to be together then you will get through it - DH and I are proof ofcthat, our DD has always been a crap sleeper but from the ages of 8-11 she developed some really severe sleep issues and still often sleeps in our bed now. We are fortunate because I work from home and DH works shifts so we often had time alone together when DD was at school (before lockdown) - when lockdown is over if you perhaps gave your child a part time nursery place would you and your DH be able to spend some time together during the day or would work commitments get in the way? DH and I find time for sex during the daytime, and also try to go out sometimes for lunch or breakfast together. Just remember that it is a phase, it won't last forever, and you will get your evenings back. We did, though it took a long time and trying a lot of different ideas to get DD confident enough to get to sleep without me in her bedroom - yes she still wanders into our room at night quite often but we have our evenings together back now - it was not easy but we got there.

I know how miserable it is sityingbin your child's room waiting for them to go to sleep because they will scream the house down if you don't (DD used to do this and sometimes got so worked up she would hit walls and stuff with her fists). We did a gradual thing so each night I would sit a bit further from her and closer to the door, then managed to sit outside the door and would make a little noise every few mins so she knew I was there, gradually was able to move further into my room and would put my head around the door to check on her every five mins, then increased to 10 mins, then 20, then 30, then gradually managed to do the same from downstairs etc built on that until we got to a point where now I pop up only once after she's had 15 mins reading time and that's it, I'm downstairs for the evening with DH. She used to say that she thought when I was physically out of her line of sight at bedtime, eg leaving the room, that she was afraid I had disappeared forever and she would never see me again. That is irrational but it's what her mind was telling her and it's very difficult to break that cycle of thought, but it is absolutely possible.

And as for your mum saying what she did, while I can understand her frustration and resentment it was very wrong of her to say that to you - it was not your fault, you were a child, any blame lies with your dad for buggering off and not having the patience to see it through.

Your mum is horrible. She's talking crap too. My 2 never slept came in with me for years. Now they are grown up, me and dh are fine, together 24 years now.

Does your mum have form?

You have inadvertently trained him to be extreme.

When you cave in to demands that's how he learns what you require from him, i.e. injure himself, scream, words of woe.

Attention, getting into bed, having you in his room, having him clinging to you, these are all HUGE rewards for a small child.

It will be hard to unwind what you have accidentally taught him but it is possible. Your DH might be better than you at the Jo approach described above. Outsource the problem to him for a few weeks, you go out for a walk so you don'f have to hear the whining (from DH or DS).

Keep in mind it will likely take 21 days of consistently not caving in and behaving like the new normal to see a change. If you go in and undermine your good work on day 10, you reset to day 0.

Remember if he bashes his head so hard it bruises during a tantrum and then you go to give him big cuddles and soothing noises then you have taught him that mummy needs him to self harm to get cuddles. I know that sounds harsh but that is what you are accidentally teaching him.

Op, my boys were such bad sleepers you would be shocked. All they ever wanted was in with me. Now they are grown I can't get them to do a bloody thing with me!!!

@ArriettyJones

Why do you feel sleep training is cruel? Teaching our children life skills is if huge importance and self settling and a good night sleep is a life skill.

I suspect what you mean is controlled crying is cruel but there are so many different sleep methods who do not involve letting the child cry it out. The gradual withdrawal method for example involves being with the child to begin with right in bed with them and gradually moving further away. Until you are in another room and they can go to sleep. Nothing cruel in that.

Sometimes I think GP and HV can expect you to be persistant with on-going problems.

If you can't see another HV try the GP and ask about sleep clinics or referral to paediatric and make it clear it's have a huge effect on you and your DH.

Please also try some of the helpline people have linked to here.

Have you spoken to your DH about what your Mum said - had a chat that you thought you were coping with a bad situation - because people do put their own slant on things and you DH may not think what's been said.

Might also be time to tell him you need more help with the entire situation.

I don’t think it’s an unusual opinion to be fair. I’ve encountered loads of people in rl and on here who think poor sleeping children will put a strain on your relationship. It’s disingenuous to say otherwise. Not many couples can cope with lack of sleep, no time to talk, no sex and no intimacy for years on end.