Mum says I caused her divorce and I’m going to cause my own divorce too

[Molocosh]

My mum has told me I caused her divorce and if I don’t look sharp I’ll end up divorcing my own husband for the same reason.

My son (age 2) doesn’t sleep, never has. He never goes to sleep until at least 10-11pm, sometimes after midnight. We have no child free time without him. Each night one of us takes him to bed at 8pm and has to stay there for hours while the other watches tv downstairs then goes to bed alone. When he wakes up during the night I get in his bed with him and end up falling asleep. My mum often jokes that he’s her revenge on me because I never slept either.

Unsurprisingly we don’t get the chance to cuddle or kiss or have sex, or even make eye contact and talk, because we constantly have a child with us. Apparently he’s been whinging that I don’t have time for him. So my mum has told me that my dad used to say the same thing, and then he divorced her. She said I destroyed their relationship because I didn’t sleep for several years so they had no adult time together.

Needless to say I feel like shit because I’ve been told that I caused my parents’ divorce. And now I’m worried about my own marriage because I thought we were coping the best we can with a crap situation - but he’s obviously unhappy and I don’t see what I can do about it? I have a child glued to me round the clock and I have no choice about that?

Have you tried to get him to nap during the day? He sounds massively over tired which is why it’s taking so long for him to sleep at night. It sounds silly but for a lot of children the better naps they have during the day means they sleep better at night.

It’s awful and I feel for you. My 7 year old still won’t go to sleep without one of us in the next room. My 3 year old is much better in that respect, and will let me leave her awake most of the time but I do lay with her sometimes and she’s asleep quite quickly. It’s just the luck of the draw sometimes as to if you get a sleeper or not.

Crossed posts with you, Molocosh.

I used to dread 3PM when my children were toddlers. Between 3 and 5 were generally the hours from Hell. Every minute used to feel like several years. I used to wonder every day if 3.30 was too early to start tea, bath, stories and bed. And I absolutely loved being a SAHM - there was just something very, very long about mid afternoons.

The only thing that would have been worse than dragging myself through those hours would have been letting/making them sleep. At least there's a fair chance of a child sleeping at night if they have been on the go all day.

He gets really tired and naughty about 3pm so sometimes I force him to have a little nap, but it’s a battle of wills.

I hated my napping that late as it always meant a bad bedtime later. I'd say nap earlier or a much ealier bedtime.

I also did the picking them up not interacting and putting them back to bed with it's bed time things - it's so there no interaction reward to getting up.

It does sound like you need outside help though - and frankly why isn't your DH getting up and putting him back to bed - mine did that sometimes and they often reacted better to him than me ie messing around less.

Empty his room of everything except his bed. Do a bath and a story downstairs. I'd start this at 7. After this, take him to bed, tuck him in and leave the room. Stand outside out of sight. If you hear him get out of bed, and you think it's to do something dangerous, enter the room, say bedtime now and put him back in bed.

Repeat as many times as necessary but stay silent. Don't talk. Dont look at him.

It'll take hours, but what you do now takes hours. Tomorrow it will take a little less time. Each night this will take less and less time.

Your mum shouldn’t have said that but it sounds like she was in a bizarre way trying to help? I agree that it’s not in any way sustainable. I’ve had friends who’ve said ‘my child just WONT do xyz’ (go to bed/not mess around etc) but have found when someone different a grandparent or friend etc does It they are far more receptive. This situation is a combination of your sons bad sleeping and your response. Completely baby proof the room and then put him to bed and mean it. As others have said keep leading him back to bed or leave him if he isn’t crying. What about trying audiobooks so he can listen to them in his bed? Or nursery rhymes on low? Might help him drift off. It sounds from his behaviour that he’s constantly overtired and a bit ‘wired’ which is hardly surprising on 5/6 hours sleep.

I also think you need to address the relationship with your partner. It’s annoying him bothering you for sex but if you as you say ‘don’t have time for talking or even eye contact’ then a relationship won’t survive that no matter how understanding both parties are. Priorities yourselves- leave your child in the evening, sit at the table and have dinner, put music on and talk instead of TV. We are far from perfect but me and DH have two boys tv’ nights a week otherwise with two small kids we just zone out and never speak 😂 it really helps us reconnect.

Don’t blame yourself for any of it- the divorce the sleep the relationship. Focus on practical steps to improve it. It can be done!

Put like that, what she’s said is intrusive (but mums are one of the few people who can intrude a bit) but it is helpful.

Hardly. OP’s mum sounds psychologically abusive TBH.

Does she have form for this kind of thing @Molocosh ?

"DS will scream and beat his head off the baby gate if we put him in his room and leave him. He has caused some nasty head injuries by doing this. Or he will do dangerous things like climbing into the wardrobe or getting under the mattress."

This just doesn't sound right. I don't know any children that bash their heads against objects so hard that they cause an actual serious injury. My son could be pretty feisty but he never actually seriously self harmed like this.
I think you should be off to the doctors and get this child assessed.
I'd be inclined to remove all furniture from the room and put the mattress on the floor, it can still look nice with posters and so on ut of reach and cosy blankets.
Pad the child gate all over, foam and gaffa tape so he can't harm himself on it and start some serious sleep training because this is totally out of hand.
Tell your husband whingeing about the situation isn't helpful because there is absolutely nothing you can do about it other than wait for him to grow up, so a bit of support would be more helpful.

*two non-TV nights

Agree @madcatladyforever I think perhaps a quick check as physically injuring himself is worrying.

I used to dread 3PM when my children were toddlers. Between 3 and 5 were generally the hours from Hell.

It was often walk to the park or TV time or audio bookswas worse when eldest was in school needing to be picked up at the time and second child was tried from nursery and didn't want to go and fetch his sister- fun times.

What your mum has said is very unpleasant. However, in between the nastiness there is some sense in her message. Rightly or wrongly, things like that can ultimately end a relationship, especially if you dont have time for any intimacy.

It sounds like you are trying already, but probably need a more robust timetable of activity, naps if need be and then sleep. I won't make suggestions as to good books/regime as frankly some Mumsnetters can be total Hitlers about these things and fling hands up in horror that it is child abuse.

However, we implemented a strict regime; meal and baths sametime every night, bed was for bed ...no reading so he had a story read downstairs etc and then we took him up. Had three nights crying and carrying on but was sorted quickly. We maintained a strict regime after though as were so relieved to get our lives back. Since then he has slept brilliantly but it is still in our memories as literally torture.

When you are not so knackered and pissed off with things, you also get your desires back as well...which helps even more

I'd tell your husband if he divorces you he is having your son because you can't cope.
That will make him think twice about it. Lovely, women don't have the luxury of just walking away for a quiet life, they always get dumped.

Slightly random thought: We have at least three generations of non-sleeping toddlers (we just had to ride it out) and tactless adults and it’s become clear as the younger ones have all been diagnosed with Aspergers /high functioning autism (same thing essentially) one by one, that the older generations probably have it too.

I know it’s a left field suggestion, but does that sound like it could apply or not?

I’d look into sleep training cuz it sounds worrying that he’s hurting himself. I’d say no more naps at 3 and also maybe just have a mattress in his room so he can’t hurt himself. Ur husband needs to stop whinging tho and help sort out the situation.

I think you should be off to the doctors and get this child assessed.

I also think HV and GP should be spoken to - at a minum to get some sleep advice but also to rule out anything else.

I’ve not RTFT abut has he been checked for Aspergers or autism or other “conditions”?

You need to speak to your GP and/or health visitor. His behaviour sounds difficult. With the sleep pattern you are talking about I wouldn’t be surprised if he eventually ends up being diagnosed with ADHD when he’s older. Either way, to start with you need to speak to someone who can be objective and give advice on a bedtime routine.

You need to stop lying in in room for four hours every night. He’s got company - he’s enjoying it.

Put him in bed and leave the room. When he gets out of bed go back in and out him in bed. Rinse and repeat untill he knows he has to stay in bed. Both of you tag team untill it works.

D3 will not sleep if I’m in the room with her.

This little boy has no boundaries from 8pm -12am every night.

This just isn’t working for you as a family.

Why can’t you even make eye contact?

I had bad sleepers. By the time dd3 was 3 I just had to bite the bullet and keep putting her back in her bed. It was hellish and I’m sure the neighbours thought I was murdering her but eventually it worked.

So then after about a month of early nights for me I felt like a human being and was able to focus on my marriage. But then I realised it was actually in bits. Seven years of me fannying bed hopping and being shattered had taken its toll. However dh has to take responsibility for that too as he never really helped. He focus on work and paying the bills I focused on the kids. Both totally disconnected from each other. So we’re at the point now we’re divorcing. We’re still good friends but we’ve lost that connection.

If I could turn the clocks back I’d focus on nailing sleep with the kids. I’d also should have never give work up.

So while your mum shouldn’t say you were the reason she divorced she is right in a way that kids can have a detrimental impact on your relationship

Arrietty, I did wonder a little bit about that, but not enough to feel confident in suggesting it, iyswim. (My non-sleeping dd is NT and my slightly spectrummy middle child was the best sleeper of my lot! But the need for stimulation described here did make me wonder).

I would get help with the sleep situation I couldn't cope with that level of nastiness to say you caused her divorce. How mean and nasty.

I agree you need to sort the issues with your child and dh but what she said would warrant no contact for a while until it's sorted.

About the head banging and other extreme behaviours...yes it's possible that there is an underlying issue and I would get that checked.
But also this is how children work when it comes to sleep. They will do whatever it takes to get what they want. If what they want is to be fed to sleep, or to sleep in your bed or whatever, then they will resort to more and more extreme behaviours to get it. That's why sleep training often fails. Because people do it half-heartedly and end up ignoring ramping up behaviour and relenting at extreme behaviour. The child learns that they have to do extreme behaviour to get what they want. You have be super consistent at the ramping up moment so that they realise you are serious.
If you do sleep training, you have to be 100% consistent from the very beginning and never ever give in. Otherwise you just reinforce that screaming, shouting, puking, head banging is what it takes to get what they want. If you do it properly, it will never get to that stage as there is no option.

I’d look into sleep training cuz it sounds worrying that he’s hurting himself.

Any child stubborn enough to actually hurt himself while head banging (my eldest was like that as a toddler) isn’t going to respond to sleep training, (which is cruel anyway) it will just cause enormous upset and disruption, and if by chance he IS on the autistic spectrum, it will cause even worse ructions.

Are there other ‘issues’ with your DS?
Not that I know of. The health visitor said he was extremely bright with an excellent vocabulary and meeting all his milestones. He’s just very clingy - wants to be glued to me all the time. If I leave him he absolutely sobs. If he doesn’t get his own way he screams and bites and bangs his head. It breaks my heart when he’s sobbing “Mummy oh no, what are you doing to me! Poor DS Name! Mummy come back!”

@@Summersunandoranges has given good advice. What spurred us into doing something sooner was what happens to a friend who ended up like Summer.

Arrietty, I did wonder a little bit about that, but not enough to feel confident in suggesting it, iyswim. (My non-sleeping dd is NT and my slightly spectrummy middle child was the best sleeper of my lot! But the need for stimulation described here did make me wonder).

I think it was the combination of the poor sleep pattern, the stimming, the pure stubbornness (which I can’t help but admire ) PLUS the grandmother’s epic lack of tact (understatement) that rang bells.