Mum says I caused her divorce and I’m going to cause my own divorce too

[Molocosh]

My mum has told me I caused her divorce and if I don’t look sharp I’ll end up divorcing my own husband for the same reason.

My son (age 2) doesn’t sleep, never has. He never goes to sleep until at least 10-11pm, sometimes after midnight. We have no child free time without him. Each night one of us takes him to bed at 8pm and has to stay there for hours while the other watches tv downstairs then goes to bed alone. When he wakes up during the night I get in his bed with him and end up falling asleep. My mum often jokes that he’s her revenge on me because I never slept either.

Unsurprisingly we don’t get the chance to cuddle or kiss or have sex, or even make eye contact and talk, because we constantly have a child with us. Apparently he’s been whinging that I don’t have time for him. So my mum has told me that my dad used to say the same thing, and then he divorced her. She said I destroyed their relationship because I didn’t sleep for several years so they had no adult time together.

Needless to say I feel like shit because I’ve been told that I caused my parents’ divorce. And now I’m worried about my own marriage because I thought we were coping the best we can with a crap situation - but he’s obviously unhappy and I don’t see what I can do about it? I have a child glued to me round the clock and I have no choice about that?

Of course you weren’t to blame for your mums divorce, that is a horrible thing for her to say.

Most people’s marriage suffer when you have a baby that doesn’t sleep, I know we had one too!

My MIL was really kind & babysit a night a week, had our baby all night.

We would be reluctant to go out, MIL would say he’s going to cry whether you are here or not Rose, get away from it for a while.

Parenthood is really tough, you need to be kind to each other, and remind each other that the early days don’t last forever.

Sorry, If you’re interested this is the direct link the sleep advice section.

cerebra.org.uk/get-advice-support/sleep-advice-service/

First I will agree with pps you did not cause your parents divorce, she was wrong to blame but probably finds denial easier than facing the fact she made the wrong choices.
Secondly I have a non sleeping child and at that age she would happily potter around her childproofed room with books and soft toys for several hours after “bedtime”. I got a baby monitor, stair gate and left her to it.
Thirdly you say you are unable to cuddle or make eye contact and whilst intimacy is difficult you should be able to do these things in your child’s presence. Do you cuddle your child?
Finally I will say this will get easier but every marriage takes work.

I just wanted to say that you sound like a lovely mum and a thoughtful wife and that your parents marriage can’t have been very strong in the first place if your sleep problems as a child caused their divorce.

Our DS is 11 and has never been a good sleeper. We don’t have date nights and didn’t have any alone time for the first few years after he was born. We’re as close as ever though. You’re in this together, you figure it out as a team. This is not all on your shoulders.

I have a DS of the same age and I’m convinced being very consistent and firm about routine is what helped us get him to sleep through from 7pm to 6am every day.

The thing is when you ARE “consistent and firm” AND you do the lavender baths, and milk, and stories, and dim lights, and quiet time and bananas and the whole shebang and they STILL don’t sleep. When you do it all, night after night, and the result is three hours of straight sobbing, or a small child head butting a stair gate until they bleed...when you’re living through that people smugly saying “I’m convinced being very consistent and firm about routine is what helped us get him to sleep“ or something about warm milk and stories just sounds incredibly annoying (and I think maybe you know that).

OP sounds intelligent and resourceful. I’m sure she’s tried all these (obvious) things.

Your son’s sleeping pattern is totally screwed up. I would get firm and regulate his sleeping. I would never stay up with a child till midnight, it’s ridiculous. To bed at 8-9, sleep through the night and wake up in the morning. No afternoon naps as he doesn’t seem to need them. Do not let him sleep during the day because he won’t sleep then at night.

@CatteStreet

'What the hell does "slightly spectrummy" mean?

She is either on the spectrum or not. This is as bad as saying "we're all on the spectrum somewhere..."'

'Slightly spectrummy', in this case, is shorthand for 'He (not she) has traits which are shared by people with autistic spectrum conditions, which do make him distinctly untypical in some ways, while other traits are not typical or people with an ASC and he does not meet the threshold for a diagnosis'.

Not that I needed to answer a question asked in such an aggressive tone, especially not considering its distraction from the issue at hand (the OP's). Do you have anything to contribute to the thread which might actually help the OP?

Then can you say that, and not use "spectrummy" please? there is no such thing as slightly spectrummy, as I said it's all very "we're all on the spectrum somewhere" and not an appropriate term to use.

[quote Enko]@ArriettyJones

Why do you feel sleep training is cruel? Teaching our children life skills is if huge importance and self settling and a good night sleep is a life skill.

I suspect what you mean is controlled crying is cruel but there are so many different sleep methods who do not involve letting the child cry it out. The gradual withdrawal method for example involves being with the child to begin with right in bed with them and gradually moving further away. Until you are in another room and they can go to sleep. Nothing cruel in that.[/quote]
We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Either way, a child so determined he will head it a gate until he bleeds is not going to suddenly become pliable.

I can remember a HV saying to me about my eldest banging head on floor “they won’t do it hard enough to hurt themselves” and thinking to myself “you don’t know DC1, clearly”. Some children have huge reserves of stubbornness. Often the bright ones, actually.

@ArriettyJones

I have a DS of the same age and I’m convinced being very consistent and firm about routine is what helped us get him to sleep through from 7pm to 6am every day.

The thing is when you ARE “consistent and firm” AND you do the lavender baths, and milk, and stories, and dim lights, and quiet time and bananas and the whole shebang and they STILL don’t sleep. When you do it all, night after night, and the result is three hours of straight sobbing, or a small child head butting a stair gate until they bleed...when you’re living through that people smugly saying “I’m convinced being very consistent and firm about routine is what helped us get him to sleep“ or something about warm milk and stories just sounds incredibly annoying (and I think maybe you know that).

OP sounds intelligent and resourceful. I’m sure she’s tried all these (obvious) things.

OP is pretty clear that she has always been a soft touch and now it is out of hand.

If it were true that normal firm strategies don't work and he is knocking his teeth out then that is a sign of really very serious developmental issues but OP does not think that's the case.

It can't both be that normal strategies don't work and the child is NT.

DS is in his own bed. He went to bed at 8 last night but refused to lie down. He pottered around doing roly polys and playing with whatever he could get his hands on until 12

Lights off so it is dark. Very firm “If you get up again I am going downstairs”. If he follows then no words or attention but take him back to bed. Every single time. The first few days will be hell, but then he will realise you mean business.

I have a DS of the same age and I’m convinced being very consistent and firm about routine is what helped us get him to sleep through from 7pm to 6am every day.

Whoever posted this can fuck right off. I did all of this and still had a nightmare sleeper. Two in fact. Turned out they each had (different) medical reasons for not sleeping. Some kids are good sleepers some are not. There are things we can do to help sleep, equally there are things some parents do that definitely do not help, but there isn’t any magic way of ensuring a good sleeper.

Please stop being so smug and acknowledge you got lucky.

Then can you say that, and not use "spectrummy" please?

I’m not offended by “spectrummy” & I knew you exactly what you meant (traits etc). Obviously, everyone feels differently.

Mind you, I got yelled down at for using “aspie” on the boards recently, so maybe we all need to start talking in strict medicalese, even about ourselves. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Whoever posted this can fuck right off.

Seconded.

@ArriettyJones

Then can you say that, and not use "spectrummy" please?

I’m not offended by “spectrummy” & I knew you exactly what you meant (traits etc). Obviously, everyone feels differently.

Mind you, I got yelled down at for using “aspie” on the boards recently, so maybe we all need to start talking in strict medicalese, even about ourselves. 🤷🏽‍♀️

It's incorrect, that's why I have asked for it not to be used.

Having similar traits to those on the autism spectrum does not make someone “slightly spectrummy”. They have traits in common, but aren't on the spectrum.

If they don’t meet the criteria, they are not on the spectrum. You cannot be “spectrummy”.

Just because you don't mind it, doesn't mean we all have to feel the same way!

'Then can you say that, and not use "spectrummy" please? there is no such thing as slightly spectrummy, as I said it's all very "we're all on the spectrum somewhere" and not an appropriate term to use.'

Logically, 'slightly spectrummy' and 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' are mutually exclusive. Because if I believed we were all on the spectrum somewhere, I wouldn't mention my child as being 'slightly spectrummy' and (as implied) non-typical. I'm happy not to use the term 'spectrummy' if it offends you. I'll use 'slightly neurodiverse' instead. But I'd quite like an apology for your aggressive attack on me, and for your minor derail of the OP's thread. Thanks.

He's not geraint anywhere near enough sleep :( you need to stop him getting up and messing around, I lay down with my 2 year old, very willful, son and if he tries to get out of bed I simply keep on and on putting him back until he stops. He used to be a much better sleeper but since the lockdown and new baby brother he has had a few difficulties.

If I let him it can take hours for him to go to sleep. But firm and exhausting repetition usually makes him fall asleep within a few minutes and he gets his full 12 - 13 hours in, no naps during the day or he won't sleep at night. Not even dozing in the morning.

If it helps I also had to reset his bed time once as going to bed by 7:30 was just too late for him over the winter, he became over tired and wouldn't settle for hours. I moved his betime to 6:30 bandit made all the difference in the world.

It really sounds like 8pm might be too late, you're possibly allowing him to get a second wind and then get over tired. I know it seems counter intuitive to put a child to bed even earlier when you are struggling to get them to sleep by a certain time already, but it actually usually helps. Sleep begets sleep.

Whatever you do decide to do, don't give up as it will take a while to see a difference most likely. Good luck

Where possible, when he is shouting Mummy Mummy DH goes to see to him. He can tell him you're in the bath, gone to the shop, whatever, just reiterate that you won't be coming but Daddy is here to comfort him

Actually, isn't the very idea of a spectrum intended to take account of people that don't meet the diagnosis threshold, but whose behaviours can be better understood by NT people if there is an understanding that they relate to the spectrum? Understanding aspects of ASC has certainly given me a great deal of insight into responding to and helping my ds.

Anyway, I'll stop - can't accuse you of derailing and then go on to do the same.

@minipie to be fair though lots of children do sleep badly but don't have medical issues. I do agree (based on personal experience) that kids who don't have ither causes can be settled by adapting and sticking to a bed time routine.

I've gone through periods of being lax with bed time (mainly when heavily pregnant) and notice a big difference in sleep patterns. Young kids also go through phases of pushing boundaries more and of course bedtime is a big area for pushing boundaries in.

It's not wrong to say sometimes a firm and consistent routine will help.

Agree with Arietty. Sometimes you do all the right things and your children still won’t sleep. What then? People still saying oh they just need a x,y and z isn’t helpful. Honestly I wish I hadn’t put us all thru the agony of constant sleep training. Once we accepted it wasn’t going to work we found work arounds and things became easier because we weren’t trying to fit some norm that we felt we should.

We found if we did get them to sleep earlier then they just woke at 3am and are up for the day then, and that was way way worse than the late nights.

One thing one of our sleep consultants said to me is a big mistake people make is putting their child to bed too early. So if you lay with them and they fall asleep every night at 10pm, if you then take them to bed at 7 you are just going to have 3 hours of misery for everyone. She said take them at 9pm (or close to their natural sleep time) do a short routine - no longer than 20 mins and then start the gradual withdrawal. Start by sitting on the edge of the bed. Then Move towards the door. Sit outside the door. And so on. Have a thing to say gently like ‘it’s sleep time’. She said do give them eye contact and stroke them if they need it as not doing that is very emotionally confusing and can feel like using emotional withdrawal as punishment.

It didn’t work for us, but it may work for you if that’s an approach you want to try.

OP is pretty clear that she has always been a soft touch and now it is out of hand.

No she wasn’t.

It seems to me what she’s describing is the default pattern they’ve fallen into because nothing else works.

If it were true that normal firm strategies don't work and he is knocking his teeth out then that is a sign of really very serious developmental issues but OP does not think that's the case.

Good grief, you’re a nasty piece of work.

No, not necessarily “very serious”. It could be various things.

It can't both be that normal strategies don't work and the child is NT. It can't both be that normal strategies don't work and the child is NT.

I’ve suggested the possibility of ASC or ADHD or similar. But when that is the case, it takes a while to realise the possibility, seek a diagnosis, accept the diagnosis and so on.

It could also be a sleep disorder and that wouldn’t count as “not NT”.

You do know OP is reading this? Why so harsh and tactless? Are you her mum?

The people saying you have caused the bad sleep are ignorant, if he wasn’t getting enough sleep he would not be up and ready for the day so early, he would just sleep in. He may have a medical issue though, such as autism so it would be worth speaking to your gp who can help you assess his behaviour. My autistic child needs about half the amount of sleep her non autistic sibling needs. If he does have additional needs getting assistance now will make his transition into school much easier.

I really do think you're Mum could be right.. My sister is going through a divorce currently and the main reason is because her 5 year old doesn't sleep and basically her husband is an arsehole who couldn't handle it.

My nephew has never slept without my Sister in bed with him and regularly wakes up at 4/5am for the day. My sister goes up to bed with him at 8pm and my bil sleeps in my nephews room. Basically 5 years of no time together, no sex, no affection etc and that ended up in my bil having an affair.

You need to try and sort the sleep, I would try a sleep consultant or chatting to the HV.

Also I know every child is different but I have read that 2 year olds don't have a very good understanding of "if you do x then y will happen".

It might be best to just simply keep saying "no" or "it's bedtime now" and then just move to physically placing him back in bed as soon as he starts to get out. He will eventually learn. And of course kids need a good transition period to bed, no screens, story etc, so they have time to unwind and process that its bedtime

It's incorrect, that's why I have asked for it not to be used.

Well, it’s slang. For traits. It’s nowhere near as bad as the god awful “we’re all on the spectrum” which IS straight up incorrect. I agree with you about that one.

I do think we should all be allowed to use slang about our own and our DCs’ autism (or traits short of the dc threshold), though.