Mum says I caused her divorce and I’m going to cause my own divorce too

[Molocosh]

My mum has told me I caused her divorce and if I don’t look sharp I’ll end up divorcing my own husband for the same reason.

My son (age 2) doesn’t sleep, never has. He never goes to sleep until at least 10-11pm, sometimes after midnight. We have no child free time without him. Each night one of us takes him to bed at 8pm and has to stay there for hours while the other watches tv downstairs then goes to bed alone. When he wakes up during the night I get in his bed with him and end up falling asleep. My mum often jokes that he’s her revenge on me because I never slept either.

Unsurprisingly we don’t get the chance to cuddle or kiss or have sex, or even make eye contact and talk, because we constantly have a child with us. Apparently he’s been whinging that I don’t have time for him. So my mum has told me that my dad used to say the same thing, and then he divorced her. She said I destroyed their relationship because I didn’t sleep for several years so they had no adult time together.

Needless to say I feel like shit because I’ve been told that I caused my parents’ divorce. And now I’m worried about my own marriage because I thought we were coping the best we can with a crap situation - but he’s obviously unhappy and I don’t see what I can do about it? I have a child glued to me round the clock and I have no choice about that?

Your mum knows nothing. If I was you i would tell your partner what she is saying. Tell him why it's worrying you. Ask him his intentions and thoughts. Ask him how you can both change things so that you can both work on your relationship more. My partner and I have discussed our situation and we are on the same page. The kids struggle to sleep even more with lockdown. They are just at an age where it's tricky. But when they are 2-3 years older the house will be different. They will both be in school. I'll have all day to clean up and sort the house. Hopefully as there independence grows we will get our evenings back. We can watch films again and relax knowing the kids are in bed for the night.

^This

I understand I had adhd toddler. We made his room uber safe (he was headbanger) and popped him in his room on a night. We had camera to could watch him. If he head banged too badly we went up, said nothing, lifted him into bed and walked back out.

You could also look at melatonin.

Btw we didnt know he had adhd at the time.

And for everyone here saying get a babysitter, what about if you can't afford it?
Yes. One evening would cost maybe £40. I don’t have £2k a year to buy us one evening per week free time. And he’d have to go to bed, which he won’t. I’m not bothered about going out, I’d be grateful just to sit on the sofa in peace.

Did your mum tell you what the psychiatrist said
I was there when she said it. I was 12 and I remember distinctly because my mum went pale and whisked me out, then told me to shut up complaining or I’ll be taken away. I was there when my mum complained about me being excluded and the primary teacher said “what can I do, she’s just unpopular, I can’t force anyone to be her friend”. My mum insisted on a referral and that person said I’m shy and quiet but there’s nothing “wrong” to make me be excluded, i.e. nothing they could “fix”, it’s just tough luck. I was there when the secondary teacher complained to my mum about me being on my own and said it was unhealthy, as if I was choosing to be alone. I’ve been told the same thing as an adult - I make people feel awkward and I don’t smile or talk enough. That doesn’t necessarily signify a diagnosable problem though.

and pursue a diagnosis for yourself too
I explored this when I asked the HV about DS (and she sad no he’s fine). My GP said there are no resources available for diagnosing adults and no point in diagnosing because there’s no support available even if I was diagnosed.

My GP said there are no resources available for diagnosing adults and no point in diagnosing because there’s no support available even if I was diagnosed.

That’s an awful excuse. Tell them you want to study for a degree or a masters and need a diagnosis to potentially access university support (which IS available in abundance). You might need a one off funding something or other from the local NHS group (sorry can’t remember the terms without access to my cheat sheet).

You are not there to service your baby's needs and your husbands.

Your husband needs to grow up and realise that you have a difficult situation with a young child - a child he wanted to bring into your lives.

Bluntly, it won't hurt him to have to wank for a few years until HIS child starts to sleep better and become more independent.

So he’s out of the way and the other parent can have a rest. Otherwise neither of us would ever get a break.

We used to do this then calculated how much of our lives were spent laying in the dark. Then I just point blank refused to do it anymore. If the dc are up then so be it. We put on a film for them , had them up with us etc and just got on with our lives with them in it. It means no grown up tv unless on a tablet with earphones. But we mostly watched a lot of documentaries, ate a late dinner, read, pottered about doing cleaning and jobs etc. Then when it was bedtime we just all went to bed with ds1 in the middle. (By the time ds1 was 2 we also had ds2) So he’s out of the way and the other parent can have a rest. Otherwise neither of us would ever get a break.which is what we do now.

As an aside, I often wonder what all these people who need so much alone time to be child free with their partners will do when the children inevitably get older and go to bed later and sit in the communal areas with their parents. I understand sex and intimacy and not getting any time alone is crushing, but if you are a couple who needs hours together alone in the evenings before bed then how are you going to cope later? Anyway slight derailment there. Just pondering.

By your mothers own logic it if you broke her marriage then it's your sons fault not yours if your marriage goes tits up. Maybe she should have a word with him. FS.
I had a non sleeper- no naps, late bed, early rising, waking at night. Sleep was for the weak. He liked to be where I or any other sucker was all the time. He liked company. He talked early and often because he had plenty of time to practise.

I had all sorts of people telling me it was my fault, DS prob had issues blah blah blah. Then a v wise old HV saw him and said you get babies like this, some don't need any sleep, stop blaming yourself and looking for a silver bullet, it's a nightmare but just do what you can to get through it and it will ease eventually. DS ended up watching a lot of Cbeebies. This saved my life. He was much better by 3 although the early rising went on for ages.

Of course everyone who had a 'normal' sleeping child were v smug and convinced it was all my fault. My MIL was going to sort him, my mother too. Both failed. Two nurseries failed though they adamant that they could get any kid to sleep. There should be a non sleepers support group so you can all vent and empathise without being told to hire sleep consultants or man up or get your kid tested.

I remember meeting the smug mother from my babygroup who had been vocal in her 'advice' on why DS never slept, while she had hers in a perfect routine. She had had another- he was a horror of a no sleeper. She looked awful, she even apologised. She ended up divorced very soon after because her arse of a husband blamed her for the nightmare of a non sleeping kid rather than facing it as team.

She’s always been like this. When I had post natal depression she sobbed “why are you doing this to me? I can’t cope with you behaving like this”. Same when I was bullied at school, she cried because SHE couldn’t cope. Now she’s crying because she’s worried I’ll get divorced. She’s also of that generation that believes “men have needs and if you don’t meet them he’ll leave you”. I couldn’t care less - I have bigger problems than worrying about another adult’s needs

I've just your updates. I am so sorry OP to hear about the difficulties you've had and how apppalling your Mum has responded. Good for you, for realising it is not your place to worry about her!

OP, it doesn't have to be a professional babysitter - I've never felt comfortable with one of those as my DD wouldn't know them. But do you know other mums locally? Kids love to have playdates, so it's not too hard to arrange a lunchtime swap with someone - you have mine for 3 hours this week, I'll have yours next week. It gives you time to have a nice relaxed lunch with your DH. DH and I haven't had an evening out since we had DD because we just can't be bothered with the hassle of it, but people are usually prepared to do an afternoon especially in the summer because the kids can all just play in the park.

He’s just very clingy - wants to be glued to me all the time. If I leave him he absolutely sobs. If he doesn’t get his own way he screams and bites and bangs his head. It breaks my heart when he’s sobbing “Mummy oh no, what are you doing to me! Poor DS Name! Mummy come back!”

OP, he has you in the palm of his hand. Most of them do at that age so I'm not blaming you, but I assume you run to him whenever he does this? He's 2 and already he knows how to get his own way but if you don't find a way to manage this now it'll only get worse as time goes on. He has to understand that he won't always get his own way, it's really important that he knows this.

You have to really want to get this sorted, be open to try new ideas and get tough. You said that you just want some free time to watch television in the evening, not that you want to spend time alone with your DH. There are some really good suggestions on here already but you have to really want to get this sorted and not just because your mum has said something (which was completely out of order of her).

@climbingcorfecastle

I think your mum is trying to gently advise you to actively do something about it. Have you considered any options such as controlled crying or hiring a sleep consultant? I know how crap it can be, I had 2 dc who from newborn stage only seemed to need half of the sleep that others their age required. It definitely had an impact on our marriage, but my DH didn't really pull his weight either so I wasn't prepared to listen to his complaints.

She wasn't gentle, what she said to her own daughter was cruel.

I understand sex and intimacy and not getting any time alone is crushing, but if you are a couple who needs hours together alone in the evenings before bed then how are you going to cope later? Anyway slight derailment there. Just pondering.

Our kids got much easier with age.

They start to give you time - as they get less inclinded to spend every waking moment with you.

We moved from a 3 bed open plan downstairs to a four bed - so they have their own rooms - and three rooms downstairs one with TV one with computer stuff in so we can get away from each other if we want to.

As they age less stuff on telly is inappropriate.

You also go through early eveing activity phase - so if you do less of that with teens still feels like a win.

Have you thought about going to see the drs and ask for a referral to paediatrics? Explain the sleep situation, he may need to be investigated for sleep issues rather than going down the route of Autism/adhd etc

Some kids need additional melatonin to help get off to sleep

Your language in this thread has gone from 'we don't want to leave our child with some random' to 'I don't want to leave DS with a babysitter.' That's very telling.

You clearly have a great bond with your DS (despite having a shitty time as a DC yourself) and you take your role as your DS's mother very seriously. You spend a lot of time looking after him, and you feel your DH should be grateful given he actively wanted to have a child with you. As a third party, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

However, separately, your DH feels you are prioritising the needs of your child above his. He feels pushed out, he wants some grown up time and specifically, he wants more sex. He currently isn't getting any.

Now you can listen to everyone telling you that sex with your husband isn't your responsibility and your DH should just be bloody grateful you even gave birth in the first place, or you can pause and reflect on what you now know.

Sex has not been a priority for you, and let's be honest, you feel it's unfair your DH is even bringing this up, given everything you for him and his child. I get that. However, you can continue to not make it a priority (you imply that paying for a babysitter would be a waste of money and don't want to even consider that), and you can wait for your DH to eventually leave you. Fair or not, that's what's coming.

Alternatively, you can consider what options you have to free up some time for you and your DH alone. A resentful woman is not a woman who is going to sleep with her partner anytime soon, so realistically, you need to free up some time to rebuild a connection before you can even think about that resulting in sex. So, a lot of time. Men may like the idea of angry sex, but if they pressurise a woman into having sex, all that will result in is throwing things and/or crying. It's not quite the fantasy they had in their heads.

You married him. You had his child. At one point, you must have felt attracted to him. If you both spend time rebuilding what you had, and trying to remember what you loved about each other as adults, as opposed to seeing each other as parents, there's every chance you can feel that attraction again. You both need to work at it (fixing it isn't your problem, it's only wanting to fix it that is), but you can do it.

The obvious solution (but also possibly the impossible solution) is to get your DS into a better sleep routine. It may not work, but it's something you can both try together, so at least your DH can see you are doing your best to free up time for him, and you're both trying to resolve this together. It needs to be a joint effort, and I think this will be helpful for your relationship even if it fails - it shows you're both on the same side. The rejection may well be worse for your DH than the lack of sex - if you're both trying to create some childfree time, it indicates to him that you do want the same thing as him, and that might help with his bruised ego.

The next solution is family help. You may be restricted by which Covid bubble you belong to. It sounds like it's going to have to be your DH's family, so I think you are within your rights having the conversation that you need to free up some alone time somehow, your mum can't help, so you need him to get his mum to help. I think you can put that on him to sort out, rather than you, especially if you explain that making the time is as important to you as it is to him.

The other option is paid help. Really, you either need to accept your DS can be looked after by people who aren't you, and that paid childcare is not a waste of a money, it's an investment in your marriage. Accepting those two things is on you. You and your DH then need to agree what a reasonable budget is together.

Unless you try to make time for your DH, your marriage will end. It might still end even if you do all you can to make time for him, but you will have given it a fighting chance. Just remember, you might think everything he wants is unreasonable, but it would be easy for him to walk away, pay maintenance, never see you and your DS and shack up with another woman. If that scenario is more upsetting to you than the scenario of creating alone time, then you need to do something.

I'm sorry it feels shitty, but that's how it is.

I suggest you reflect, collect your thoughts, and find (somehow!) some time to talk to your DH. If that's really impossible due to your child being stuck to you 24/7, you might need to take it turns to look after your DS and to write an email setting out your thoughts on the way forward.

He needs reassurance from you that you are prepared to try, and you need reassurance from him that he will put in as much effort, and he accepts it's going to take some time until you feel like a woman again, and not just a mother. That's really what it comes down to.

Two of of three of ours were very clingy as babies and as toddlers - I'd day there were the most confident now.

As long as we got bit of time in evening together we could cope with them being in the bed with us most of the night for years. People we knew we horrified and said they couldn't cope with that - but it worked for us.

It's finding a system that works for you as a couple and it does sound like outside help may be needed to find that.

Outside of COVID, does he go to paid childcare?

@ArriettyJones
We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Either way, a child so determined he will head it a gate until he bleeds is not going to suddenly become pliable.

I can remember a HV saying to me about my eldest banging head on floor “they won’t do it hard enough to hurt themselves” and thinking to myself “you don’t know DC1, clearly”. Some children have huge reserves of stubbornness. Often the bright ones, actually.

I do not think what you are describing up there has anything to do with sleep training so I stand by my point that SOME methods of sleep training are not cruel. I also believe we as parents need to teach lifeskills Self-settling is one of those and it can be really hard to do.

I have a child who is incredibly stubborn. I have had to learn different methods of parenting him to get through to him. He is now a well adjusted 18-year old who DOES sleep. He didn't when he was 2. In fact of my 4, he is now the one who can regulate his sleep the best. Part of that has to do with the fact he is intelligent and has worked out he needs x amount of sleep to function well.

I would suggest you read up on different sleep methods and actually understand them. The method I mentioned gradual withdrawal does not expect a child to " suddenly become pliable" its a very slow method it takes more than 21 days. Involving you supporting your child to learn that you are still there when they can't see you. In the case of a child like the OPs teaching him that mum is there even when he cant see her sounds like a really positive thing to do. It is NOT a short solution nor is it something that is easy to do. However in that method when the child gets out of bed they would be returned over and over slowly teaching them once the bedtime routine has been used this is what happens.

A child doesn't suddenly become pliant no. However you can learn methods that will support how to parent a child with anxiety and separation issues like it sounds like OPs son has if he is unhappy about mummy leaving. You can also teach such a child to feel safe about bed time and that sleeping needs to happen.

This is assuming he is NT and it is not in any shape of form stating this is a easy to deal with solution. I know someone where it took them 3 months before they saw any benefits. (the child stayed in bed - didnt sleep yet but stayed in bed) I do not believe there is anything cruel in it. I find it quite sad you feel so. to me it suggests you only know of controlled crying and are swiping all sleep training under that.

@Molocosh

and pursue a diagnosis for yourself too I explored this when I asked the HV about DS (and she sad no he’s fine). My GP said there are no resources available for diagnosing adults and no point in diagnosing because there’s no support available even if I was diagnosed.

This is rubbish. My DD1 got a diagnosis for herself aged 27 and has received medication and counselling since. Some of the counselling has been private, some on the NHS, and her medication is definitely NHS!

Unless your GP is saying that in your area there are no facilities. My DD has to travel 30 miles to the clinic where she is seen.

Would you consider getting a sitter occasionally and then you can just stay home and relax while the sitter plays with him on the occasional evening?

It solves the problem of wanting to sit on the sofa together with your husband but also means you are there to monitor and not leaving your child alone with someone you don’t trust.

It also might be good for your son and help begin to relieve his dependence on you in a non-threatening way. I’m sure it would take a few visits for him to adjust but it could bring some relief to all of you.

I’d start by checking with local daycare/preschools to see if anyone there minds children outside of work. Or perhaps a teen neighbor.

I’m sorry your Mom is a jerk! I do find it hard to believe their isn’t diagnosis/support for adults.

I tell myself “every problem has a solution” and that helps me push through and keep trying to find answers when something difficult is happening.

You also go through early eveing activity phase - so if you do less of that with teens still feels like a win

I see what you are saying but what about preteen ages like 8-13 surely they don’t go to bed at 7pm and are with you in the evenings. Also I suppose it matters less if you are a night Owl. I go to bed about 10 (even pre kids) so if they go up at 9pm it’s still only an hour to myself and that hour I’m knackered anyway. So it’s not quality time for me.

I also had a non sleeper. He's 8 and sleeps ok now, but not as much as you'd expect for a child his age - from about 10pm til 7am. He is being assessed for ASD. Some children just don't sleep as much as we'd like.

@MrsKoala they get less relentless with age though. A 10 year old can get their own drinks and watch a tv programme for an hour during the day if you need a sit down. With toddlers I find you need those couple of hours in the evening to decompress.

8-13 surely they don’t go to bed at 7pm and are with you in the evenings.

I think there were the activity years for us -- but school nights 8-9.30 with some clubs would be bedtime here at that age range.

I do go to bed later than 10pm which helps but our weren't to bad then but DH back late around 7 a lot of evenings so he didn't get a huge amount of time with them and our kids were by those years fairly good company and I enjoy spending time with them.

Plus they would some spend time happily in their rooms some of those years.