Mum says I caused her divorce and I’m going to cause my own divorce too

[Molocosh]

My mum has told me I caused her divorce and if I don’t look sharp I’ll end up divorcing my own husband for the same reason.

My son (age 2) doesn’t sleep, never has. He never goes to sleep until at least 10-11pm, sometimes after midnight. We have no child free time without him. Each night one of us takes him to bed at 8pm and has to stay there for hours while the other watches tv downstairs then goes to bed alone. When he wakes up during the night I get in his bed with him and end up falling asleep. My mum often jokes that he’s her revenge on me because I never slept either.

Unsurprisingly we don’t get the chance to cuddle or kiss or have sex, or even make eye contact and talk, because we constantly have a child with us. Apparently he’s been whinging that I don’t have time for him. So my mum has told me that my dad used to say the same thing, and then he divorced her. She said I destroyed their relationship because I didn’t sleep for several years so they had no adult time together.

Needless to say I feel like shit because I’ve been told that I caused my parents’ divorce. And now I’m worried about my own marriage because I thought we were coping the best we can with a crap situation - but he’s obviously unhappy and I don’t see what I can do about it? I have a child glued to me round the clock and I have no choice about that?

(I mean in not applying NT-based concepts and expectations - being NT myself and already having a NT child)

1. Your mother got divorced because she's toxic and blamed her child for her own inability to make her relationship work. Communication broke down in the relationship because of her not you.

It's a poisonous thing to do, to blame your child. That has an affect on your child to openly blame them for your failings in a marriage. It is never a child's fault if their parents relationship breaks down and anyone who frame's it like that is to be avoided. Especially if its your own parent.

2. Why is your husband bitching to your mother? Why is your mother allowing him to bitch to her? This is unhealthy. Your mother is actively trying to interfere here. It's almost as if your toxic (we've already established this) mother wants your marriage to breakdown to punish you for breaking up her marriage (rather than accept her own responsibility in the matter). It sounds like your husband is being actively manipulated and encouraged to do so by your jealous mother.

3. Sometimes children don't sleep. This is normal. There is no set way to manage this. Sleep coaching does not work for everyone. And at age 2 you still can't reason with / discipline / bribe a child.

DS is 5. We've tried everything. We are still working on it. A set bedtime isn't an issue until they start nursery / school. And this helps because they are more tired.

Having time as a couple is necessary. You do need to talk to each other. BUT your son is still only 2. It will get better and it will not always be like this.

I dislike attitudes that there must be something wrong with your child or your parenting if they won't sleep. Some kids just don't but they eventually grow out of it.

4. This is clearly having an affect on you. And I'm not convinced it's your relationship with your husband that's the primary problem.

I note you seem to suggest that, you only know about this from what your mother has said. You haven't spoken to your husband about this.

You ought to. Firstly because he should not be bitching to you mum without speaking to you first. And secondly because you don't actually know if this is coming from him OR this is your mother misinterpreting something he's said and exaggerating what he said and projecting her bitterness about her relationship onto you.

I would not be at all surprised if he's just made a very general comment about being exhausted and she's brought a massive shit stirring spoon to the party and he's considerably less bothered than she's making out.

5. I think either way, you need to tell her in no uncertain terms to fuck off because she's a narcissistic its not helping you. Your problem has been turned into it being all about her marriage not yours. She hasn't got your best interests at heart because if she did she wouldn't be blaming the breakdown of her marriage on the 2 year old you and considering the psychological impact on you as an adult by saying this.

Worse still I fear she's so bitter she's trying to actively break up your marriage so you don't succeed where she failed. It's not about whether your child will sleep. It's about the break up of her marriage.

I'm not convinced she's on your side as much as she's trying to make out.

@Molocosh

So don't get a random, get someone who has a DBS and a childcare qualification Like Vanessa George?

OP I appreciate that you are under a lot of stress but there are over 170 posts of mostly sympathy and practical advice here - and this is what you focus on?

Get a friend, colleague, brother, sister, cousin, nephew or niece to babysit. People don't have to have adult children to be able to babysit, plenty of teenagers do as well. It doesn't gave to be a stranger but it also doesnMt have to be one of your mothers.

I agree wholeheartedly with some PP’s here.

Your DM said you (dc with sleep problems) were to blame for her divorce, then implied that because your own dc is now having sleep problems you are somehow to ‘blame’ for this too.

That makes no sense, by her strange logic your dc will be to ‘blame’ if you end up divorced, surely?

What a load of unsupportive bollocks!

The people saying you have caused the bad sleep are ignorant, if he wasn’t getting enough sleep he would not be up and ready for the day so early, he would just sleep in

This is why talking about sleep among parents is so hard - it's so hard to know if it's you, routine or the child's pre-programing or something else.

My kids slept but they always woke the same time whatever time they went to bed - never slept in. Had a friend who first child did and couldn't undersatnd why late nights could be an issue she really did with the second.

DD1 was like this. Although very polite she was firmly defiant and never ever slept. From newborn she would have one ten minute nap a day. It was AWFUL, especially since she had an eighteen month older brother who slept reasonably well (until she woke him him to have someone to talk to...)

We eventually put her in her own room. She was allowed to read, quietly, or play, but she wasn't allowed to make noise. She would always eventually put herself to bed, but had to sleep with the lights on. She has recently (aged nearly 30) been diagnosed as ADD and she still has to sleep with the lights on! But audio books were a saviour with her, and also her learning to read very very early. As long as she had light and a book, she was quiet and happy, and she seemed to get enough sleep in the end!

Like Vanessa George?

OP. Come on. Let's try and be reasonable here.

The fact of the matter is, your marriage is apparently in trouble. You need to take some time to fix it, or you'll lose it. You're being held hostage by your kid, and if you're right and he really is NT and not suffering from any other difficulties, then he's incredibly badly behaved and overindulged, and you need to take back control ASAP. Hire a consultant, get bedtime sorted, get a babysitter, get out for the evening and talk to your OH.

You may find that once his bad behaviour is sorted, your MIL will be much more willing to spend time looking after him.

Your mum needs to be told to wind her neck in. With that attitude to her own child, she needs to take a good look at herself.

Your husband, rather than moaning about sex, needs to be a grown up and actively research ways of helping your ds sleep better rather than hoping that you have a magic wand to wave.

I think your mum is trying to gently advise you to actively do something about it

gently? by saying she was the cause for her parents divorcing....I would hate to see her being harsh if that's gentle

The thing is when you ARE “consistent and firm” ... and they STILL don’t sleep
We’ve tried baths, stories, putting him in bed and walking away, getting in with him, playing music, Ewan the Dream Sheep and similar toys - nothing works. We’ve given up and just accepted that we have to take turns spending the evening with him so the other can have a rest. Otherwise neither of us would ever get a night off. Except DH is obviously upset because he’s telling my mum I don’t have time for him.

have you ever questioned Aspergers/ASD for yourself?
I had no friends as a child (still don’t) and I found it very upsetting and depressing. My mum was told I’m just unpopular and shy but there’s nothing wrong with me. The school psychiatrist suggested if I wasn’t doing well at school she could arrange for me to be put in a “secure unit”. After that my mum concealed and minimised any issues because she was frightened they’d take me away. This was in the 80s and 90s though, things were different then.

@CatteStreet the psychologist who diagnosed my dd described her as 'spectrummy'. Not everyone is offended by it.

@Molocosh

So don't get a random, get someone who has a DBS and a childcare qualification Like Vanessa George?

You've had two pages of decent advice and sympathy and you choose to bring up the incredibly rare case of Vanessa George?

Really?

This was in the 80s and 90s though, things were different then.

They really were. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult.

And for everyone here saying get a babysitter, what about if you can't afford it? We paid a babysitter twice, in 18 years. We simply couldn't afford it.
Not everyone had spare cash in the real world.

What I would say is don't necessarily try and put him to bed too early. It just won't work. It will make bed time a battle and that's the last thing you want to do. You can't win if you do that.

Next thing. Do not let him use tablets or phones. We did and we had a huge drop in behaviour and it certainly didn't help sleep. We ditched them and it made life easier after he'd got over the withdrawal of it.

Next bed time is for him to go to bed even if he doesn't sleep and comes down six thousand times. Stay with him for a bit and then tell him you are going in a bit and then go. If he gets up take him back and repeat. Don't talk to him when you take him back other than to say I'm going to go and repeat.

Eventually he will stay in his bedroom even if he doesn't sleep. This is your goal before the sleep.

We always had bedtime just for sleeping no stories or messing about.It was cuddle,kiss leave the room.Ds is 6 now and because it's always been this way he accepts it and goes to sleep.

Based on your last update I think that the sleep is a symptom of something bigger and it sounds like it is time to insist on a referral. It also sounds like you have a lot of unresolved issues from your own childhood that you might want to talk to someone about.

Good luck

Except DH is obviously upset because he’s telling my mum I don’t have time for him.

Have you asked your husband about this or are you just listening to what your toxic mother says?

My mum was told I’m just unpopular and shy but there’s nothing wrong with me. The school psychiatrist suggested if I wasn’t doing well at school she could arrange for me to be put in a “secure unit”. After that my mum concealed and minimised any issues because she was frightened they’d take me away.

Have you ever been told this by anyone but your mother?

Your mother sounds increasingly like a real issue and has a control issue over you.

Seriously this isn't a healthy relationship you have with your mother.

What a horrible thing for your mum to say, I'm so sorry.

Sounds to me like you don't need a divorce but you do need a sleep consultant. At 2 yrs old a child is capable of sleeping through the night. There are so many gentle methods, and not so gentle methods, to enable him to learn how to get himself back to sleep. Get help now, your sanity deserves it

Have you ever been told this by anyone but your mother?

@RedToothBrush

I initially read that as her mother told OP that she was unpopular etc.

It actually says her mother WAS TOLD (by a teacher?) that she was “just” unpopular and shy but there was nothing “wrong” with her. (Charming).

The rest of it was her mother protecting her and being afraid she’d be taken.

So that actually sounds much healthier and more protective than her mother currently. Did you make the same misreading I did?

Did your mum tell you what the psychiatrist said? I think the issue here is your mother is extremely manipulative and you’ve got very little confidence in your ability to parent your child. Your son is only two and you say you’ve ‘tried everything’. You have to be consistent, keep going. Your son has bags of energy and time and your full attention, he’s always going to try his hardest to get your attention.

You’ve got to help him to separate from you, he has to learn to be by himself. Keep going, have faith that you are a good mother, you want what’s best for him.

Set a routine, be gently but firmly consistent.

So that actually sounds much healthier and more protective than her mother currently. Did you make the same misreading I did?

No.

I've read a mother who blames a 2 year old for the breakdown in her marriage.

Then relays something that the husband may (or may not) have said in a way which is very much blaming her daughter

Then I've read that the mother has said that she's been told daughter is unpopular and shy

Then that the mother said she'd been told something by the psychiatrist that if the daughter didn't get better she'd be be taken away.

All these things smack of a dependence of the mother on her daughter and be looked after (controlled) by mother who is 'just trying to protect' her daughter from all these others.

Either way she's interfered and driven a huge wedge between her DS and Son-In-Law rather than say, you shouldn't be talking to me about this, you should be talking to your wife.

I mean. How many men talk about their lack of sex life with their MILs behind their wife's back?

There's something not right about this situation.

1. Your mum is a twat( I am being gentle), for putting their divorce on you. I would seriously tell her that.
2. I would have sharpish words with husband for moaning to his MIL about being neglected. Wtaf. Having a chat with you about it, or maybe even with a friend of his. But complaining to your mum is so...childish, underhanded, moronic, disrespectful towards you, the list could go on.
3. Some kids are shit sleepers no matter what you do. Mine was like that and we tried everything we could possibly do. It will gradually get better, bless you, it's really hard.

Then I've read that the mother has said that she's been told daughter is unpopular and shy

Oh yes ISWYM. The relating of it.

She’s either very nasty or she’s completely lacking a filter.