I have zero authority

[ChiaWatermelon]

Hi,

Mum of two boys here, aged 8 & 18. Looking for some help and advice on how I can become a stronger mother with some authority in my house.

I love both of my sons to bits, and I wouldn’t change them for the world, but sometimes I feel bullied and manipulated, DS (18) isn’t too bad, DS (8) is the problem, I have tried to ignore it hoping that he will grow out of it.

He is very well behaved at school, but at home he is a completely different person

He is miserable, he is always moaning about something.

He is an extremely fussy eater, take this morning for an example, he asked for a salmon cream cheese bagel once out in front of him he decided he didn’t want it.

Since being off school he has refused to join in on the online classes (at the start of the pandemic, the school ordered for every child to get dressed and attend online assembly, he did it the first day then decided that he wasn’t going to do it again)

It’s been a struggle to get him out of the house for daily exercise and supermarket trips, he just sulks the whole time I find myself bribing him with amazon credit.

The list goes on.

Oh Jesus Christ op. This is getting fucking tedious. So you gave them two options for breakfast and they ended up with something else which they then threw in the bastard bin. You’re whinging and whining ‘why are they like this’ when it’s YOU that is making them like this. You’ve had pages and pages of advice and you’re just ignoring everyone. Why ask then??

Wow, Azaziel maybe take a walk yourself to blow off steam. You ever struggled to learn something quite big and new in very little time?

This will take a while to become intuitive, OP. In the meantime, it's great you're taking notes! If the walk doesn't seem to be happening, come back and ask again! Together we'll get your boy out in the fresh air!

@Azaziel

Oh Jesus Christ op. This is getting fucking tedious. So you gave them two options for breakfast and they ended up with something else which they then threw in the bastard bin. You’re whinging and whining ‘why are they like this’ when it’s YOU that is making them like this. You’ve had pages and pages of advice and you’re just ignoring everyone. Why ask then??

This whole problem summed up in one post.

OP, he won't starve to death, nor will lack of telly / console kill him.

You're taking one step forward and two steps back.

OP, I think a lot of posters are really wanting to help but frustrated that you seem to be missing the point. Please don't be offended by my bluntness, it is clear to me you are an incredibly kind woman motivated only by love for your sons. The problem you have is that you have believed that by treating them with endless kindness they will behave the same way - this sometimes happens - but not often. In your situation, your sons are taking your kindness for weakness and being very unpleasant to you. You need this to stop. You aren't a slave or a housekeeper.

You need to show them 'there's a new sheriff in town' and let them adjust. Then you can relax and be kind in the day to day, with firm boundaries. When they overstep the mark you reinstate the boundary, then tow the line, you can relax again. This is parenting for most people, a balance of kindness and firmness.

I think the food issue has become a huge problem because you enjoy cooking and want them to eat nutritious meals and have good health. They have weaponised this against you. The only way to break the cycle is to stop giving any choice, serve a meal, remove without any comment and repeat.

The breakfasts you serve are worthy of a 5star hotel. Were youi provided such delicious treats daily? I doubt it. Why do they deserve your time and labour? I think toast or cereal in the week, prepared and cleared up themselves will make this meal easier. I know YOU won't like it, but parenting is tough.

Lunch have a rolling list - have simple choices available - bagel with ham or egg, beans or eggs on toast, chicken drumsticks and salad or a chicken sandwich. No fuss. If it is left or refused ignore.

Dinner - I would be very strict for a week - no choices no suggestions but a selection of things they have always enjoyed. Eat family style and place serving dishes rather than plating up. Everyone must try everything. I have a policy that each child can state 5 items they NEVER have to eat - no more. This can be changed 6 times a year (school hols) and not between. Everything else is on your plate. I decide what you eat, you decide how much.

When you see good progress then sit down for a meeting and ask them to suggest meals in turn. DS8 must help cook once a week and DS18 must cook for you all once a week. If DS18 complains be very kind and say "I realise I have let you down by spoiling you, I am so sorry, I will put it right and teach you to cook now". If Either make a big fuss smile and say "Think how happy you'll be when you leave home and can do as you please in your own house". Remind them it is your house, you buy the food and you are their mother - not a servant.

I am a psychologist who works with these situations (and a lot lot lot worse!) every day. It will work, but requires you to believe in it completely.

Regarding the walk - again the emphasis is wrong. You cannot make a child walk. All you can do is make it appealing by showing the positives of the walk "we can get an icecream when we get home" or whatever and the negatives of not doing the walk "if you don't come no screen time until tomorrow" then carry thru consistently. Your DS is confused and thinks he's the boss.

Hi.

I’m back, I did manage to get DS(8) to come for a walk with me, well he didn’t walk he rode his scooter and said that he doesn’t want to speak to anyone or want anyone to speak to him.

I’ve told both boys that I will be cooking a simple prawn pasta for dinner and if they don’t want it they don’t want to eat it. DS(18) is accusing me of being difficult again and has said I need to show my full potential and let it shine through my cooking.

@fuckinghellthisshit Yes you’re right, growing up I wasn’t given anything extravagant for breakfast, I would get the usual cereal, toast or fruits, mum wasn’t really a good mother she’d buy us everything we wanted but was never there.

has said I need to show my full potential and let it shine through my cooking

So cheeky! What did you say?! Ok, bad question. How did that make you feel? I would've been livid.

You say the 8yo likes to play on his console. Well of course, most 8yos do. But most 8yos are not allowed to do so for more than 2-3 hours a day. Because it's incredibly bad for them to sit indoors all day and to spend that time staring at a screen. At that age, they're probably not playing socially in groups either, so there isn't even that small benefit.

You need to give him a lot less of what he likes and a lot more of what he needs.

Also, I'd like to come and stay at your hotel please. The food sounds great, I'd be waited on hand and foot, not have to do any tidying up and encouraged to zone out and relax for as long as I like. Fabulous! (For a lazy weekend, in an otherwise busy life).

You realise he speaks to you like you are the child?

mum wasn’t really a good mother she’d buy us everything we wanted but was never there.

Sorry to sound harsh but aren't you doing a similar thing? Providing all the food, TVs and consoles they want but never 'being there' to do activities with them?

Your 18-year-old needs a swift kick up the arse if you ask me. Cheeky git. Where has he learned to speak to women like that? I'd have told him to get his own sodding dinner.

@CharlotteCollinsneeLucas DS(18) is just a “wind up” I’m used to him.

@lottiegarbanzo we do go on holiday 4/5 times a year and I do take DS(8) on days out.

Right but what you've said about your mum (and dad?) does explain why it hasn't come naturally to you to do everyday 'family stuff' together; playing games, going on walks and bike rides, watching films together, making crafts, baking. The 'quality time' stuff and the 'ordinary, everyday family time' stuff that isn't a treat or amazing fun but is normal and nice.

You are putting a lot of empahsis on giving them things that cost money and your time as an adult, separately from them. Unusually little emphasis on doing things with them.

@lottiegarbanzo DS(8) is not interested in doing anything with me, I used to do a lot of things with DS(18) but he is getting older now.

Ok, but did you give him the look and say, "Right, you're cooking tonight then!"

The way he spoke to you was patronising. That is not a facet of his character you want to encourage. Shrugging it off as 'just how he is' encourages it.

Mightn't he bit more interested if he didn't have the option of playing computer games and watching TV all day?

You have to lead from the front, by getting on with stuff that he could join in with (but doesn't have to) and telling him what you're going to be doing and that he's really welcome to take part.

You can't wait for him to tell you what he wants to do, or to ask you to organise something. Just get on with it.

The thing is, you're asking about how to gain authority but alongside that (and as part of that) you need to learn how to have fun - and how to lead activities that can be fun. Having authority doesn't mean being the anti-fun police, more the opposite, being the person who provides a healthy, happy balance.

'I need to show my full potential and let it shine through my cooking.'

I would have been replying with a sharp 'OK, great, as of now I will be showing my full potential to do nothing at all for you until there is a decent apology and the attitude changes'.

You being 'used to him' and meekly putting up with it is all very well, but you are setting him up to never sustain a relationship, as any woman he lives with is (hopefully) going to get very fed up of being spoken to like that. And it sounds as if he has a very high opinion of himself and his wit, which is bloody tedious to any audience other than your mother, tbh.

You also need to ensure both your boys have competence in the kitchen and around the house - for their sake as much as yours.

I'm stealing that line though. 'DP, you'd be letting yourself down if you didn't let your full potential shine through when making dinner tonight. Five courses please!'

Yeah, that would go down well.

You seem obsessed with food so it's understandable that your son has chosen this as the arena for a battle. You actually seem to be trying to meet your own unmet needs through cooking and obsessing over what has and hasn't been eaten. Not only is this handling a defiant child a golden opportunity, it's also placing him under pressure and over emphasising the role of food in your lives generally. It casts you in the service provider role which plays to your tendency to feel like a victim who has done nothing but bend over backwards to please. I'm sure you mean well but it can be draining to live with someone you're always supposed to feel grateful to.

I think you need to get a new hobby as the meals are an unfolding disaster. It's just a simple this and simple that but who talks about their cooking this way and gives daily updates to strangers on the internet? Consider a different way of meeting your own needs and write a rota of genuinely simple (and not rich) meals for the week. This will help your anxious son at least know what is happening in advance. Don't explain your menu (you will be dying to talk it to death but don't!!) Just put it on the fridge and explain you're learning a language/doing a TEFL course -anything that shows the entire family, yourself included, that you're an ordinary human being with private goals and other demands upon your time.

My children get no devices at all during the day unless for school. They don't get to decide when they wake up. They certainly don't get a long menu of options to choose from at tea time and they fix their own breakfast. They don't get says e unless they've earned them by doing school work. They read books and move beetles about in the garden. I don't keep tabs on how much they want to be with me because it doesn't occur to me-we go for a ramble when I can fit it in and it isn't emotionally loaded. We are far from perfect but I can't fathom how you got yourself into this position without having crazy boundaries. So maybe you could look into that. I feel sorry for you but I actually wonder how much pressure your put on your sons without realising it.

sweets

I wouldn’t say that I’m obsessed with food, I don’t really eat much myself. I just see it as my role to cook and make sure that the boys are well fed and like I said before it keeps me occupied.

I’ve cooked DS(18) has said that he might have some later, DS(8) has said he is not going to eat it because I didn’t ask what he wanted to eat and why aren’t I letting him choose, I told him it’s either this or nothing else.

I always wonder, would it be different if I had girls?

See you're obsessing again? Get something else to keep you occupied and you might find it stops playing a central role in the family. You see it as your role but what if you had another role? Maybe your son wouldn't have such an easy arena for power plays.

Seriously I think this is going to occupy you for years especially now you have a forum of people to report it to. You are creating a monster! Do you really want to look back at 2020 as the year you spent arguing over food? There are better ways for everyone involved to get others to notice them. You are attention seeking with the requests for orders like it's your role to run a cafe (if this is the case then most of us are neglectful) and now you're attention seeking telling them you're coming this and take it or leave it. Find another topic of conversation and stop using this to try and stay relevant to their lives. They will only find new ways to tell you to back off until you stop playing games. Find a role for yourself that doesn't involve them playing a scripted part. They're your children not walk on parts in your occupational therapy. Yes all children should say thank you for dinner but you have taken that requirement and turned it into a crushing obligation. In lockdown things get intense and magnified if you let yourself get silly. You're getting silly. Yes your son sounds like a twat but he also sounds like he's suffering from intense claustrophobia.

Doubtless you'll return to say you've put a simple quiche on and the ungrateful wretches said something vaguely preposterous....