Why does MN not like SAHMs?

[Didthatreallyhappen2]

This baffles me (and I haven't posted in AIBU as I know the vitriol that arises there sometimes). I'm proudly an SAHM. Friends are equally proudly working mums. I don't care what they are, as long as they are decent human beings. They don't judge me, and I don't judge them.

But on MN it seems that SAHMs are looked down on. My DH and I have a partnership - he earns the money and I do everything (and I mean everything) at home, all the domestic tasks, school-related etc etc. We both work full time, but I don't get paid, or have an annual review, or bonuses or whatever. It works for us.

Everything in our household is joint - and yet on MN SAHMs are continually lambasted for not having their own money, prospects, wasted their education, not a good role model etc etc. Why? I truly don't understand this.

ammary

So a sahm isn't allowed to moan about it being hard, perhaps she's had a bad day.
It's your choice to work, and plenty of wohm complain about having to do it all.
Nothing wrong with taking benefit you are entitled to. We have TC and I haven't worked in 30 years. Shoot me, lol.
As for everyone else having to work, well that's a contradiction in terms, there wouldn't be any sahp's if it was compulsory to work.
I don't like you either, you sound so judgemental.

If you don't want to work do what lots of others do, give up and live within your means, like everyone else has to do who doesn't work.

@ammarry
I don't like sahm who moan how hard it is. Try having a full time job on top then talk to me
I am a SAHM. How do you know that you have a harder life than me? You don't know how many children I have, their ages or tempraments. You have no idea what my daily life is like or how much support I receive from my husband, family or friends.

I have had a FT very stressful job and found being at home with my children harder in lots of ways. It is extremely simplistic to assume that all WOHPs have it harder than all SAHPs. There are way too many variables and different personal circumstances to make such a sweeping statement. Also implying that you do all that a SAHP does and work FT is ridiculous if you're referring to children that aren't yet at school age.

@ammarry but it is bloody hard for some though, who are you to tell somebody how difficult their own life is? 😂

How do you know that you have a harder life than me? You don't know how many children I have, their ages or tempraments

That's another oddity.

The absolute non stop moaning about how hard you have it.

You knew babies were hard with the first one.

Then there is a 2nd, 3rd sometimes 4th+ DC ffs why have so many kids then.

Think it would be easy?!

@MyuMe
*That's another oddity.

The absolute non stop moaning about how hard you have it.

You knew babies were hard with the first one.

Then there is a 2nd, 3rd sometimes 4th+ DC ffs why have so many kids then.

Think it would be easy?!*

I posted in response to somebody suggesting that SAHMs basically had no right to moan because they didn't have it as hard as FT WOHMs. I simply pointed out that this was a generalisation and wouldn't be true in all cases. I then get accused of "non stop moaning"....

Your logic is weird anyway. So anybody that chooses to do something that's difficult has no right to moan? So if you choose to embark on a hard and taxing career then you can't ever complain as you've inflicted it on yourself? Humans need to vent when stressed or exhausted and to take such a hard-line view on self inflicted hardship seems pretty cruel and petty.

I’ve felt a bit annoyed by friends who are SAHM’s before! But I admit that’s because I’m jealous, and that’s my problem not theirs.

I honestly don’t hear SAHM moaning about how hard it is. Surely if the reason you don’t have more children is the cost of childcare then it’s obvious why stay at home mums don’t have that constraint.

LOL @5zeds you are staggeringly naive

Am I @Grobagsforever ? I sincerely doubt it but I’m sure you know my situation better than anyone.

@5zeds you may or may not be married or divorced from a good man who actually supports you. But child support in this country is extremely low, spousal maintenance usually not granted and pensions often not worth spitting.

You, personally might be ok. Most divorced SAHMs are not. Especially those who stayed at home to support the 'career' of a man earning a low wage and pulling all the I'm the bread winner shit.

I have a solution, for me anyway. As my DC's are now secondary/university, and I am early 50's, as I can no longer claim to be a SAHP, can I claim to be an early retiree?

As a retiree, I assume I will be viewed as lucky to be able to pursue interests, and potter about, in a way that the label of SAHP does not allow.

@5zeds
Working parents also may choose to cook from scratch, cooking from scratch isn't a necessity it's a choice. Everything else you mentioned isn't abnormal, so you think families that work all have over grown gardens, messy houses and dirty bed sheets. It's done at the weekend or in the evenings. What I don't understand is those who justify it by saying they have to do x, y and z - you don't need to clean your whole house everyday, gardening isn't needed everyday, working families do the weekly shop (in person, too) at the weekend and laundry in evenings. Why not just say I am unemployed because I prefer to be.

I agree with most of your points orsomething but my house definitely needs tidying and cleaning every day with two toddlers - I do moan about it too because I dislike having to tidy and clean my house every day .

But I don’t think it’s any different to the usual moans from any and all people about whatever it is they want to have a good moan about. I certainly wouldn’t ever think to tell WOHM that they have it easier though, after all we all have our shit to deal with right?

But I would never say ‘I’m unemployed because I prefer to be’ - because I don’t prefer to be.

orsomething are you saying that SAHMs should call themselves "unemployed because I prefer to be"? I'm losing track of this now ...

I've never read much SAHM bashing but do read a lot of posters saying if you are a SAHM and are not married, then you are in a precarious position since as lovely as they think their DP may be, if they split up, the DP is invariably not so lovely and the woman and children could be kicked out with nothing. So they suggest getting a job. I thought it was sensible.

Bahhhhhh

Mine have left home now apart from dd, but she boards.
Have contemplated calling myself a retired sahm, ha ha .
But hating titles I tend not to respond with any.
People wonder what you do, it's quite funny.
I think you do what you want for your family, it's newt to do with anyone else.

I think families that don’t have an adult who is at home during the day are time poorer than if they did. They are after all swapping time for ££££s and as a result have to cut some activities and outsource some work. It’s fine. I really don’t care how you manage your time and money. Why would I? I’m very comfortable with my choices and understand the implications of those decisions.

In what way is a married woman not financially secure

When she becomes a divorced woman? Yes, if you are lucky you will some assets to share, but for vast majority, those assets do not generate enough passive income to live on. A SAHM friend of mine is just going through a divorce - yes she still has the same brain, but unsurprisingly, employers have not exactly been fighting over her CV where the last entry is from 15+ years ago..

I would imagine if you get divorced it’s fairly rare to just swan on doing what you did before? How is it different for a sahm than one already employed in a job that presumably funds half her lifestyle?

I do think that some wohm's don't give sahm's credit for sorting out their finances.
Of course some are left high and dry in the case of divorce.
However, you can be a wohm on a low income and still struggle financially when your dh leaves and doesn't pay for his family.
Some sahm's would be no worse off if their dh did leave.
I'd have got half the house, half the business profits and have still been able to manage to cope financially and we are a low income family.
There's too much generalisation from both sides and this doesn't help.

How is it different for a sahm than one already employed in a job that presumably funds half her lifestyle?

I would think adjusting your lifestyle to half the income is still easier than adjusting it to 0

5zeds it's very, very different. A working parent will have been paying into a pension, will have an up to date cv, will have routines in place around childcare etc. My marriage exploded in late 2017 - if I hadn't always worked, I wouldn't have been earning £30k and would have had to rely on maintenance from an alcoholic husband who lost his job shortly after moving out. It would have made an already tough situation even worse. Like it or not, working leaves you less vulnerable and more able to provide for yourself and your children. Women really need to consider that before deciding not to work.

But why does anyone need to justify it with a 'because...' orsomething? Why should there be any need to start explaining?

I do think that some wohm's don't give sahm's credit for sorting out their finances
I think when women make informed choices they will generally try to sort their financial situation out, just like in some of the examples I gave earlier of things SAHMs might consider before deciding to stay home.

I do think, even moreso since joining MN, that there's a lot of relationships where a woman drifts into being a SAHM, without having considered the long term impact and they end up trapped or shafted if and when it turns out that their DP isn't as true to his word and leaves them high and dry in the event of a split, whilst he keeps the progression in his career, higher earnings, national insurance contributions, workplace pension, house, assets and so on (often expecting his ex to continue to do the bulk of child raising whilst he sees them every other weekend). It concerns me on those threads how many posters start calling for automatic rights for things that are currently available but that the woman either didn't get herself clued up about, or she knew but decided she didn't need to consider it because her and DP love each other, but she does now. It always seems to be people in that situation being all too keen to remove rights of women to remain independent in order to appease people who don't make informed choices.

pointythings

I understand where you are coming from and totally agree, however that's just your situation. Plenty of sahm's manage when their dh leaves.
I'm not saying it's easy but all this bollocks about not being able to get a job that pp talk about is ridiculous.
It might not be a 30k job, but maybe not far short.
There are jobs round here that anyone can do, no experience needed, doesn't matter if you haven't worked for years.
Cleaning, factories, call centres, paid charity work. In fact most entry level jobs. You can earn a fortune in factories that would put your 30k to shame, especially if you train for flt certificate.
Then there are top ups, like TC/UC.
I have pension provision, and not worked in 30 years, I also voluntary pay NI.
I'm nowhere as vulnerable as somebody losing half of a huge income of their partners, with high mortgage, childcare costs, and high bills.
I'm certainly not on my own, some wohm's think we're stupid.