How long is "usual" to have off after a bereavement?

[ElderAve]

I'm sure this is going to make me sound callous but I'm honestly just trying to get an idea of what's reasonable.

I currently have three staff signed off with "stress due to bereavement". Initially, they were given 2 weeks' compassionate leave and thereafter, they've all had medical certificates of between 4 & 6 weeks. Two are now telling me they won't be well enough to return at the end of their certificates.

Our usual policy is an OH referral and informal meeting after two weeks for anything MH related but as there was a clear and not work related reason behind these absences, I didn't think that was worthwhile or fair.

Now, I understand everyone will be different, that anxiety is a real thing etc etc but I can't let this drift indefinitely.

FWIW these are women in their 40s & 50s who have lost a parent. Obviously distressing to them but nothing exceptional in the circumstances.

What do you think. Do I start "proceedings" or let them have a few more weeks?

In my work most take 3 months

I worked with a woman who tragically lost her child in an accident. It was horrific. They gave her 2wks off then started making return to work noises. Poor woman never returned.

I was back in work after a couple of days when my mum died, then took off a few odd days for the funeral and other bits and pieces. However I'm a contractor, don't work, don't get paid and I knew I would be taking 2 months off 6 months later.
It was good to have something to keep my mind off it, but everyone is different.

I replaced a woman whose child died in tragic circumstances. She was off for many months (at least 7-8). I never met her - she never returned to work. My then employer could be petty in many ways, but not this. She was given as much time as an education establishment could afford in terms of both money but also legal and compliance matters.

But there are shades of acceptable. Losing a child is worse than losing a parent (which is the circle of life). Losing a spouse or sibling sits in between but wouldn't accept months off for that. Parents 2-3 weeks max paid leave around the death and funeral. I accept its hard and everyone deals with grief differently but if you need more time it should be unpaid.

Yet if you break your leg or need to recuperate after an operation you would get whatever the maximum sick pay allowance is (in my work it's 6 months). But someone who has lost a child or husband, 3 weeks?
I am glad not to work for you, Zennudist.
If a bereaved person's doctor has said they are not fit for work then they should have the same application of the sickness policy as someone with a different reason for being unfit to work.

ZenNudist absolutely no one should judge that there’s a level of grief. That’s awful. Grief is grief, no matter the age or relation of the person. When we start to measure grief in those terms, we make it so difficult for the bereaved to talk about how they are feeling.

Most people won't be "over" their grief when they return to work, regardless of how long they take off. I was in a daze for six months after my Mum died (only going to work, definitely not socialising) and the grief was still pretty raw after a year. It gradually lifted.

The dilemma for employers is much bereavement leave can the organization realistically afford/organize? A large organization can probably manage it for several months; a small one will struggle more.

It sounds callous, but it also wouldn't help the grieving employee if they lost their job because a small business went under.

*how much

@BiddyPop

Only 5 days off work if you lose a child. I don’t think 5 years would be enough for me. I’d probably jump off a bride well before mind.

@T0tallyFuckedUpFamily

I completely agree with what @ZenNudist post says. What she was saying is right imo and was in relation to this thread.

There is distinctive differences in time that employs give for different situation. Losing a parent you would expect to get more time off than losing a second cousin would you not? @Zen was simply illustrating this.

It’s not about how much grief some has, that’s completely subjective. But there has to be guidelines regarding work an how much time off someone should be entitled to.

For example someone losing a parent is allowed 1 day off. Well that’s unreasonable.

Someone losing a second cousin wanting 3 months off, we’ll that’s unreasonable as well.

There has to be some way if distinguishing the difference

My grandma died last year at the age of 90 and a colleague had taken two weeks bereavement leave a few weeks before for her grandma. I didn't feel that I needed any time off though and the funeral fell on one of my non working days anyway. I kind of felt she'd had a long and happy life and I was glad she had gone quickly.

My cousin's husband is currently terminally ill at the age of 51 and I will want to take at least a week off when he dies to support her and her young son. We were raised like sisters and her own mother has dementia so she has no other support.

I doubt I will even be offered a day for the funeral so I will probably ring in sick as its non negotiable that I will be there to support her.

You don't always grieve the way you expect to and need to be there for those left behind.

And let's remember that the OP asked what was "usual" not what was reasonable or desirable. And eight weeks isn't usual.

Eight weeks would be unusual anywhere I’ve worked tbh.

When my mum died, she’d been in hospital for several months before and my work had been very good about letting me out early to see her, also letting me go to meetings to discuss proposed care if/when she returned home or if she needed a care home etc.

The week she died, they let me have that off because we knew the end was near. She passed away peacefully on the Weds, I had the rest of the week off and then returned to work the following week. My boss I’m sure would have understood that I might need more time but I felt better going in, really. She was 89 and had been poorly for ages though, it wasn’t a sudden shock - still sad obviously.

I know every situation is different, but 8 weeks seems quite a lot for a person in their 40s or 50s losing a parent.

My father died when I was in my 20s and at university, I only had a few days off lectures/seminars... He was older and it was actually expected (he had been ill for months), so I do understand what OP means about age.

The thing about bereavement is that it can take a really long time to "recover" from - some people may feel ok initially and then terrible 6 months after. I think 6-8 weeks sounds extremely generous if it's been fully paid and it would be more helpful to assess if there is something that can be adjusted so the person can return to work. A client facing employee doing other duties for a while, for example, or not needing to attend external meetings.

From April it will be the law that employers have to give two weeks paid leave (might be statutory pay but at least something) if your child (aged under 18) dies.
Not sure that goes far enough but it's a start.

It is statutory but at least it is two weeks off.

When our daughter died DH’s company were wonderful and just told him to take as long as he needed.

I was in my early 30s when my dad died. He was 62. It was totally unexpected, DPs lived 4 hours away from us, and DM went to pieces.

It took ages to get an appointment to register the death, without which you can't book the funeral. Then all the undertakers were busy so it was quite a while until the funeral.

In the meantime there was all the finances to sort and people to tell and things to do. DM sat there in tears looking helpless, and I just did everything. I couldn't leave her at all so I was trapped there until after the funeral.

I went home and back to work and I'd probably had 4-6 weeks or so, I can't remember. What I do know is that not long after going back to work I was struck down with RSI and ultimately signed off work for 7 months. (and 25 years later I am in the midst of another bout of RSI and in tremendous pain).

These employees are women and could well be trapped looking after the surviving parent as well as possibly fighting with all and sundry for care packages; or possibly responsible for house clearance and selling the parents home - who knows?

I would suggest it wouldn't be unreasonable to refer to OH at this point, who may discover a perfectly valid reason for one or more of them continuing to be off.

To put my situation in context:
There is a circular about how much paid leave is allowed. If a dr signs you off, sick leave is a different circular. If you take annual leave (within your allowance) or unpaid family leave, they are different again.

When my DGPs were unwell and dying, 2 were in city centre hospitals (ish) in my city and my boss used to allow me take a late lunch to coincide with visiting hours - as there were loads for evenings and not so many in early afternoon visits. When DGF died, she was great and I had the time I needed around work. When DGM does, it was a different boss who was stickier that I had to work my hours and core time - so I don’t think I even took what I was entitled to beyond what I absolutely needed to (and DH was overseas so i was doing childcare and grieving combined).

With my other DGM, things happened over a weekend but the funeral was midweek so the same sticky boss had no choice but to let me take the time.

When DFIL was very ill and died a couple of years later, at a distance (3 hours drive), it was much more complicated but a different (again, female) boss was understanding and let me arrange annual leave at short notice and also allowed the full circular with no quibbles (“we’ll sort the paperwork when you’re back in” attitude) . That was much more difficult between distance and also unexpectedness etc , so that freedom was good to have.

If it was DD, I think I would be on unpaid leave for some time.

My mum took off 2 days when my gran died. One to arrange the funeral and one to attend the funeral . My mum was 60 and Gran was 86. Someone she worked with got signed off for 6 months due to bereavement stress and her mother was in her 90s in a nursing home. I know everyone reacts differently but it’s hard to imagine that’s not taking the piss a bit.

Most people I know who have lost an elderly parent have been off for 2/3 weeks.

Sorry : wine taken:

When DHF was I’ll, I had a very good female boss who was very understanding once the work got done - I had great flexibility.

When DGM 1 died, I had a far stickier male boss who didn’t even let me take what I was entitled to take - but work was extremely busy at the time and the funeral was over a weekend.

When DGM2 died (same summer but DGF 2 had died 15 years earlier and very different circumstances- DGM2 needs fat more support from DH and I for years), I still had the same sticky boss but DH was completely overseas at the time and extended family were less available so I had a lot more to do and the funeral was midweek so I had to kid DD and sort various things and there was no possibility of me coming in to work.

When DFIL was sick it was a couple of years later, with a different female boss and we were. A distance away. It was a relatively short illness (5 weeks) but traumatic so I was away more from work ahead of the death and also for the entire period to the funeral etc.

And when my gran (mum’s mum) died I had no time off. I’d only been in my job 8 months and the funeral was on my day off.

I was in my 40s when my mum who was 67 literally dropped dead. I did not think oh well I am in my 40's, that is the natural order of things. Instead I was in shock.

I’m in my mid 40s and really don’t think I’m any more emotionally resilient than I was in my 20s to cope with bereavement of a close relative. In some ways it would maybe be harder as I’d have to manage my children’s grief too. However my parents are older and it’s part of life that older people die hence if someone loses a parent when they’re in their 40s/50s/60s it’s “one of those things” as opposed to if they’re in their 20s.

In any event as others have said you can still be grieving and go back to work. Getting back to normality can be helpful. No one expects people to be “over it” in a couple of weeks but it doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to be off work for months on end

We give 2 weeks compassionate leave. Any longer you will need a sickness certificate and then be treated as per the companies sickness policy.