How long is "usual" to have off after a bereavement?

[ElderAve]

I'm sure this is going to make me sound callous but I'm honestly just trying to get an idea of what's reasonable.

I currently have three staff signed off with "stress due to bereavement". Initially, they were given 2 weeks' compassionate leave and thereafter, they've all had medical certificates of between 4 & 6 weeks. Two are now telling me they won't be well enough to return at the end of their certificates.

Our usual policy is an OH referral and informal meeting after two weeks for anything MH related but as there was a clear and not work related reason behind these absences, I didn't think that was worthwhile or fair.

Now, I understand everyone will be different, that anxiety is a real thing etc etc but I can't let this drift indefinitely.

FWIW these are women in their 40s & 50s who have lost a parent. Obviously distressing to them but nothing exceptional in the circumstances.

What do you think. Do I start "proceedings" or let them have a few more weeks?

I think that as a society we often take the view that when you're in your 40s and 50s your parents are likely in their 60s to 80s and therefore it is the 'natural order' that they die and we shouldn't be that upset, but it's not always the case. I lost my dad in my teens which was horrendous. I'm in my 30s now and my mum is in her 60s and I have no clue how I will feel when she dies.

I do think the loss of partners and children is different though.

My DP had a week when his mum died and then a day for the funeral

I was out for months when my best friend died... at least 8 weeks

Everyone grieving is different. He prefers to keep busy and distracted whereas I can't focus at all and wouldn't have been any use. I'd give them a bit longer.

One person taking eight weeks off for the death of a parent is unusual (I've never come across one in a forty year working life).
Three in one workplace at the same time is not a coincidence.

A boss of mine, who was single and had lived with her elderly mother took just a week after she died, plus IIRC just the day of the funeral.

She was urged to take more, which would have been possible, but she said she’d only be moping around at home.

My poor dh was abroad for work when his mother died - not unexpectedly - and I don’t remember him taking a single day, except for the funeral. There was nothing constructive he could do at that time.

Sometimes people do need quite a lot of time, e.g. if the person lived in a rental property which needs to be cleared quickly, but unless the death has been for whatever reason very sudden/traumatic, I can imagine that some people who say they need several weeks off are taking the P.

@saraclara Me neither. I agree that there's something odd going on in this workplace.

I would implement your work policy about OH appointments etc. I have found our OH to be very supportive and helpful to employees.

What time is reasonable depends very much on the individual. They may have other health issues and life stresses going on as well as grief. It's for the GP to decide how much time off is required.

It's quite possible that the length of absence does relate in part to their experience of the workplace. Perhaps the workplace is overly stressful or unsupportive, have you considered this?

DH's mum died very suddenly three years ago and he took five weeks off. However, the first week was compassionate leave and the next three were annual leave booked months previously. He tried to go back after that but he fell apart at work and his boss insisted that he took another week off (she drove him home there and then).

We get 1 day for extended family, 3 days for closer family (grandparents, aunts, cousins etc) and 5 days for close family (spouse, children, parents). Some people take annual leave (paid) or personal leave (unpaid) if they need extra time, usually if it has been traumatic or they are either living with the deceased and have a lot to sort, or the deceased lived at a distance and there is a lot to sort.

Maybe you should look at the working environment and see if that has any bearing on why they might need longer off than usual. It doesn’t matter if OH is supportive or if they have available counselling, if they work in an unsupportive environment, with shitty workmates.

My company policy says that after a certain period of absence staff will be referred to Occy Health. It doesn't say that the absence has to be work related. If you break a leg playing sport then you will be absent, it isn't work related but you will be referred.

Gosh you sound callous OP. I don’t even know how much time I had off after my child died. Grief affects everyone differently and if someone cannot do their job because they are so upset, they can’t do it. Starting disciplinary proceedings which is effectively threatening or intending to dismiss them is hardly going to be helpful to their wellbeing at such a time.

IMO OP it’s not up to you to say that this is not work related. Yes they have another primary cause of distress but that doesn’t mean you can’t take steps at work to reduce stress there, help them cope, counselling/phased return/etc. Personally I would progress with the meetings. You need to know whether there is anything you can do to help, what your staff see as the best way forward, etc.

These meetings aren’t a stick to beat people over the head with unless they’re deliberately made that way. Offer your staff your help and ask what you can do to help them get back to work.

I had three days for my mothers death when I was in my 20s. One day after the death, one for “arrangements” and one for the funeral. The individual days were spread over a couple of weeks.

An acquaintance of mine still hasn’t gone back to work at all since her mother’s death (at age 94), before Christmas. GP said there were no grounds for her to be signed off after the week her employer gave her so she just told her boss she would take it unpaid. Her boss has told her she is at the ink of losing her job so she is seeking help from her union who have actually told her she should return to work... she wants to go back “at the end of February”.

I do think western society is pretty crap with bereavement.

I would say though that if you are older, it is really helpful to your family if you plan your own funeral ahead of time. I had to start from scratch including visiting two local undertakers to decide who to go with, choosing the coffin, deciding if ashes were interred or scattered, where to have the wake, etc. You have to make appointments to see undertakers as well. It takes a fair bit of time.

If you can ease back into work then getting back into the routine can be easier. But if you work somewhere where bosses are unsupportive or even bullying, and it is very stressful, then going back early could be too much to cope with.

And with partners and children dying, I have known people come back after 2 weeks, and others having a lot of time off. It really does depend on the individual.

Personally I have found it easier when a death is expected, than when a death is sudden and unexpected.

@BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou No one takes unpaid leave unless they really need it.

They are taking the piss. Fine to have time off. Not fine to expect to be paid for it.

Assuming you are not running a charity suggest you ask OH to speak to them. Its your job OP as a manager to actually manage your department. That includes following work policies on sickness and compassionate leave.

I’m assuming your colleagues are in receipt of full pay during their absence?

Why are you assuming they are getting full pay?

I have someone off for mental health and in the first two weeks I referred them to an occupational health nurse.

The nurse calls them and offers support. It does says for stress related absence. In my case this wasnt work related either. I had one call with them to make the referral. This was really helpful as it helped me understand some of their worries. In terms of work it was not being able to focus and coming back to a back log, so I gave some reassurances about how we manage that.

Now I'm kind of cynical that this person will be back when the full sick pay turns into half sick pay, not because I think the person is lying but because they have bills to pay. If they aren't then we have to start looking at cover.

My job is just to try and support them, their welfare at work etc.

Obviously its impacting business a bit and my stress levels though.

@BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou No one takes unpaid leave unless they really need it.

Or they can afford it! She can! She only works at all because with her children all grown up she was bored.

My works policy is awful on compassionate leave for bereavement. You have to take annual leave/unpaid and then apply to the chief executive,who you have never met in all likelihood, using a three page form explaining in great detail the circumstances of your relatives death, your relationship with them, your travel route to their funeral etc etc. And then it's up to him to decide if you get it or not, with no explanation of his choices.

One of my staff recently lost her mum and then three weeks later her Dad. Both lived overseas in a difficult to reach country. She took 5 days leave for each funeral mostly due to the length of the travel there and back.
Woman has worked for the company for years, always been reliable, no issues with her at all. She was in bits after both deaths and wouldn't have been fit for work in any case.
She was awarded one day compassionate leave.
Not even enough for her to attend both funerals.

I had to tell her and I was mortified.

I think it should be 5 days CL for a parent or close relative and then the person should be offered the chance to take annual leave or unpaid leave and keep in touch with their manager to discuss return. That's been standard across other jobs I've worked in and seemed to suit most people.
Anything further than that was usually people getting signed off with bereavement induced depression or stress-and was managed as thus-again fair enough.

2-4wks would be the norm in our office.
I don't think I could function if I lost my mum or dad.
My boss would be desperate to get me back to work as even when I go on holiday there's nobody to do my job. I'd just offer to come in at night to do a few hours catch up when there's nobody there. I wouldn't be able to cope with people and their condolences.

I am in my mid 50's. My dad died within the last year. I took 1 day off, actually more to support my mum who needed help. I do know I will be far more emotional when my mum (finally) dies, so may need more time. It's been a year of death for my family - other close relatives and the family pet. None of which would be allowed under a bereavement policy but actually cause more work and emotional distress.

But I am quite horrified at your staff. I personally think you need to be tougher on their (phased) return to work. That is their normal life and they need to get back to that as soon as possible. I think they are (slightly) taking the mick.

From April it will be the law that employers have to give two weeks paid leave (might be statutory pay but at least something) if your child (aged under 18) dies.
Not sure that goes far enough but it's a start.

I had bereavements when working for the NHS. The standard rules allowed one day paid compassionate leave for the funeral of close relatives, although a maximum of five days could be granted at management discretion. Annual leave was taken for any other funeral.
I took two weeks sick leave when my father died and returned the day after the funeral. When my husband died I had five weeks sick leave, returning two weeks after the funeral. I had to take annual leave when I had to organise the funeral of a more distant relative.