How long is "usual" to have off after a bereavement?

[ElderAve]

I'm sure this is going to make me sound callous but I'm honestly just trying to get an idea of what's reasonable.

I currently have three staff signed off with "stress due to bereavement". Initially, they were given 2 weeks' compassionate leave and thereafter, they've all had medical certificates of between 4 & 6 weeks. Two are now telling me they won't be well enough to return at the end of their certificates.

Our usual policy is an OH referral and informal meeting after two weeks for anything MH related but as there was a clear and not work related reason behind these absences, I didn't think that was worthwhile or fair.

Now, I understand everyone will be different, that anxiety is a real thing etc etc but I can't let this drift indefinitely.

FWIW these are women in their 40s & 50s who have lost a parent. Obviously distressing to them but nothing exceptional in the circumstances.

What do you think. Do I start "proceedings" or let them have a few more weeks?

Is it a particularly stressful workplace?

Are they being paid? Two weeks compassionate leave, paid presumably. Are they now on sick pay or ssp?

I presume the OP means that it's not unusual to lose a parent in your 40s or 50s. My friend lost her mum at 18 and that was definitely much tougher.

I had a week's paid compassionate leave when my dad died (I'm in my 40s), and took a further week's holiday to cover the funeral (as it happened to be when I'd already booked leave to visit my parents) I don't think you finish grieving after a week or two, but I felt well enough to return to work by then. The grief came and went, and still does occasionally but it's not generally a problem at work. If it was I'd probably just go to the toilet and have a few minutes to myself.

I think much longer periods of leave would indicate mental health issues (indeed that's presumably what they've been signed off with?) So yes you should probably treat them as such.

I had two weeks off when my dad died but didn’t get a chance to grieve during that time because it was all so manic. In Ireland funerals are only a few days after a death. I had to arrange the funeral as my mum just wasn’t capable. The wake (which goes on for several days before the funeral) was just constant and I had to talk to literally hundreds of people, it was the most overwhelming and exhausting experience of my life. The death had to be registered, will sorted out, solicitor meetings, bank stuff, pension stuff, utilities, getting rid of all his mobility stuff etc etc etc and the constant bloody visitors. Al while looking after a 5 year old and an elderly parent who was Not
In a good state. My mum isn’t capable of doing this stuff so it all fell to me. I lost about a stone in two weeks because I had no time to eat and no appetite anyway.

When I got back to England I was utterly worn out but it was only then I could even start to think about the fact that my dad had gone. I went back to work straight away but I should have taken another week off as I was a mess.

For the people who think it should be easier to lose a parent when you’re in your 40s and 50s - I disagree. My dad was in his 80s when he died. I was 38 and I hadn’t lived under his roof or even in the same country as him for about 14 years. He had been ill and weak for years and it wasn’t really a shock. But I was devastated and I’m still devastated and losing my dad truly broke my heart. I think if anyone had said “at your age” to me I’d have punched them.

It's shite whenever it happens. I lost one parent in my 20s and the other in my 40s. Both were devastating but the loss of my mum is with me all the time due to the closeness of our relationship (which had 40+ years to develop). It also brought back memories of every earlier loss, and the finality of losing your second parent is hard to bear. If I think of other people I would say what some of you have said, parent in 70s/80s, to be expected etc, but when it came to my own parent I realised what a lot of tosh that was.
What pains me now is that once you're back at work nothing more is said as if you are fully recovered. All those firsts - birthdays, anniversary, Christmas - and no one except my dh notices or remembers.

On the being paid issue, I mentioned that I took two weeks for each of my parents, so 10 days each time (they died three years apart). I was paid for 3 of those; the rest were unpaid. My employer would have allowed more, but I needed to get paid. Plus for me, work was therapeutic. I don't know many people who were or are in a position to go for an extended period without pay.

I wonder if all those saying losing a parent when you are older is not as bad, has had parents die? It is hard.
Also I had to do everything from registering death, organising funeral, etc.

@saraclara I don't think anyone's trying to "top trump" their grief. We're all saying how it affected us differently and how long we needed off work for our individual situations.

The OP wanted some perspective on whether it was "normal" to take more than 4-6 weeks. From what posters are sharing, it isn't. So the OP probably needs to find out why these two employees need additional time.

Seconding whoever said grief is not linear. It is by and far one of the most surprising and humbling processes I have had to go through.

DM - back the day after the funeral
Miscarriage - no time at all wanted to/needed to focus on others
Grandparents - no time at all, long lives and peaceful deaths
Darling aunt who was like a mother to me - 4 weeks and a phased return

Different contexts, different times of my life and different emotions all meant I needed different amounts of time off. There is no normal.

I was quite proud of myself for not needing any time after my mother. It was misplaced. 3 years later I needed to take a week off as I couldn't stop crying. Took an emergency phone call with a mental health professional to help me realise my mother's death had only just sunk in.

Please be gentle, please be kind.

There is a lot of oddness here regarding ageism and age you lose people. I can understand the meaning of it being in “the natural order of things” to lose a parent in your 40s or 50s. I suppose. But there are also people saying people in their 40s/50s have caring responsibilities.... I don’t know what to think.

From my perspective and to answer the question, when I lost a parent in my early 20s - a time when I was also a parent to children of my own and yes, they were old enough to grieve, so I had to help them through that - I took eight days off, and five of those were before the death. As far as caring responsibility goes, in my early twenties with young children AND elderly grandparents to care for, the latter who had just lost their child....what does that say about the natural order of things? To those losing a parent in their 50s, having cared for them for years and vaguely expecting the loss, imagine for a second that the loss your family is expecting isn’t them, it’s you, and imagine how both the older ABD the younger generation would deal with the sudden hole in the family.

My other parental loss, I was 13. I missed zero school. It was considered a good idea to keep things normal.

@Tombakersscarf That is what I have found that by 50 bereavements bring up earlier bereavements again. And losing your second parent is I think different as it can mean you become the older generation in your family.

My mum died when I was 38. Losing a parent in your 30’s/40 is is fairly “normal” and I was obviously sad but she had seen me grow up, get married and have my children whereas if she had died when I was younger then I wouldn’t have coped as well as she would have missed all that.

Death is natural, it’s coming to us all. We are all doing to lose our parents as harsh as that sounds.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

I completely agree with your post about losing a parent in your early 20’s being more difficult than in your 40’s/50’s.

The younger you are the worse it is. As you say, not necessarily the grief but the overall loss is more severe.

Can people not see that this has nothing to do with their, individual experience?

The OP wants to know what's reasonable. I'm not sure how to answer that without reference to my own experience.

Chocowoka, maybe you should phrase your post to make it clear you are only speaking for yourself.

I was one of those 'older' people when my mum died a year and a half ago. It was still awful but I agree with the logic (not that grief obeys logic) that it was not tragic as it would have been for someone younger. However, 6-8 weeks! I got my workplace's standard 1 week of compassionate leave and I had flexibility or took leave around all the other arrangements, including my dad needing care. I can't imagine how a workplace is functioning having been 3 people short for so long. Like others I wonder if it would be different if they weren't being paid. And you do still have to go on functioning in day to day life - for your own DC in many people's cases, including mine.

We get 3 days paid for a parent, anything beyond that is annual leave or unpaid. I'd say average time people are off is about 2 weeks.

@Tombakerscarf

It’s my opinion on the OP’s post. I personally think 8 weeks seems excessive under the circumstances.

My answer would have been different if the staff were early 20’s say

Do the three people know each other OP? Or do you manage a very large number of people do having three off at once for the same reason isn't so unlikely? If not, it does seem very odd. But if my work was stressful and I didn't like it, and I was aware that my colleagues were getting two months off for losing a parent I could imagine thinking I'll have that much off too then. Maybe with them all doing the same, they see it as normal?

Hi OP,
I personally think compassion is needed here and no judgement. Everybody deals with bereavement differently.
One person might feel able to go back to work in two weeks another might need two months or more.
I would hold off starting "proceedings" and handle this with care.

After my Dad passed away I was a wreck and it took me months to feel like my life was returning to some kind of normality.
Luckily I had taken voluntary redundancy a month before my Dad passed so I didn't have to worry about jumping through hoops with work and sick notes, etc. Which would have just added to my stress and anxiety.
Losing a parent has to be one of the most difficult things to recover from.

I also think when you mention that your workplace is stressful this could have something to do with your colleagues not rushing back to work before they feel ready. It's the last place I could have coped with being when I was getting over my bereavement.

@saraclara - no-one is playing 'top trumps' - people are sharing their own experiences, which is what the OP was asking. She wants to check she isn't being unreasonable in expecting staff to come in and do the job they are being paid for.
Well, OP put it a lot nicer than that, but many of us who have lost their parents are telling her that she has been more than generous with the 2 weeks compassionate leave.
Of course you are still grieving, but you still will be weeks, months and years down the line. You have to learn to manage that grief though, you can't really expect to be entitled to take months and months off work for a bereavement of a parent.

It scares me to think that people would turn their noses up at someone taking two weeks for a parent. My father isn't young, and he's basically my best friend in the world. I can't imagine my world without him. I guess not everyone has that close a repair with their parent, but when the time comes (and I hope to god this is years and years away yet) my world will be turned upside down. Two weeks to me would be nowhere near enough to "recover".

I think I'm quite lucky in that I work in the NHS and we're usually quite well covered for leave - I certainly wouldn't like to be threatened by my manager "starting proceedings" after such a short time.

Don't know why my phone changed relationship to repair!

ruby Two weeks might not be enough, you don’t know till the time comes. Or you might want to get on with everyday life and go back to work fairly quickly.

I think about my dad dying often and I will take it hard. But I already know I will be back to work in 2/3/4 weeks time as staying at home dwelling won’t help me.

No-one is saying that grief is over at the point that one returns to work. Jeeze, if I'd stopped grieving for my husband after even the two months I had off, that would be very weird. And grieving for my dad clearly took longer than the two days I had off work.

But part of moving through grief relies on our day to day lives going on, and some degree of distraction. I'd actually have gone back to work earlier if it hadn't been school holidays towards the end. I needed to, and it was the healthier decision.