Who else would really appreciate a polite discussion of gender issues and the concerns of women at the jess Philips webchat on Monday?

[StealthPolarBear]

I posted on the webchat thread:
Since the questions have already been asked I am not allowed to repeat similar but I want on record that self ID, its potential abuse, protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers, the protection of natal women's rights and the importance of teaching biological facts in schools are big concerns to me.

MNHQ have said they don't want any more comments or questions about gender issues on the Web chat thread which I can understand. However what I do want to make clear is the number of people who may share some or all of my concerns. Otherwise any questions about gender issues are of an equal weight to all others and in fact others, which can be repeated in a different form, may seem to gain more weight.

Nope. As I said about JP, they're letting ordinary women do the dirty work for them. Bunch of cowards.

It's the hope that kills.

It does make me think of all those memes. you know the kind.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

and

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them"

and

"Madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

I guess in this case, madness is speaking to politicians and expecting them to give a shit about women and children. We know they don't. We really really know they don't. Yet, we hope.....

If an MP can be shown, with clear evidence provided (that being a quote from their own web chat) that they have misunderstood, misrepresented or plain not read an act of Parliament that they are campaigning to change, then what happens? Where do you go to?

I'd like an answer to this, it can't just be a rhetorical question.

I don't think its 1950s. I think it's 2010s and seemingly 2020s too. I don't think stereotypes have ever been so bad

Absolutely. People don't see it because the new-old stereotypes are now dressed up as 'identity' or some batshit theory about female brains accidentally growing in male bodies.

I'm not advocating this at all you understand, but doesn't it make you want to start chaining yourself to railings and breaking windows? I also feel tired of it all being so shit, but I also feel angry and I'm not going to stop.

People don't see it because the new-old stereotypes are now dressed up as 'identity' or some batshit theory about female brains accidentally growing in male bodies.

Using some form of mental gymnastics, genderists have decided that if you want to live your life according to the stereotypes of the opposite sex, or a mix of both sexes, declaring yourself trans or nb means that you are rejecting stereotypes.

Meanwhile, those of us who reject the stereotypes but just get on with living our lives in the bodies we have, without labelling ourselves, are told we are "cis", which appears to mean that we accept the stereotypes for our sex.

Actually it makes me hope in a perverse way (although not, really) that all women's rights are revoked. No votes, no property, no autonomy. Let's see how fast many of these women decide that actually they're perfectly happy as men after all.

Have MNHQ addressed the deletion of the posts at all. As in, not the deleted by but the vanishing ones?

One of mine got "vanished". On a brighter note, Glinner has tweeted about a tweet about it.

I'm not advocating this at all you understand, but doesn't it make you want to start chaining yourself to railings and breaking windows? I also feel tired of it all being so shit, but I also feel angry and I'm not going to stop.

Yes. And I think it will come to that eventually. Again.

then not connect the dots enough to realise that it's not possible to 'live as' the opposite sex without invoking these stereotypes?

Or indeed at all. But yes, it's all about stereotypes. Jess thinks she's better than that, with that comment. She isn't.

I’m incredibly disappointed. She doesn’t have my vote. There was a real lack of transparency and honesty in the chat. My question was ignored and I worry vulnerable women will be ignored if she wins.

I don’t want to harm trans women or cause any abuse. I can’t imagine the pain they go through and I do believe trans women should be allowed to live as women but it needs to be acknowledged there are some spaces biological women need to be safe in and there needs to be some segregation safeguarding.

is it worth posting in site stuff to ask why deleted posts have disappeared as opposed to posts standing but with a deletion message? I mean obviously we know why - otherwise the webchat would be filled with deletion messages and the argument that not that many people are concerned doesn’t quite wash, but I’m interested in what weak excuses @MNHQ come up with.

One thing is very clear from that webchat- Labour MPs still aren’t listening, they really need to catch on to the fact that in the UK we are a democracy so rather than Labour telling us what we need Labour should be asking us what we need.

One thing is very clear from that webchat- Labour MPs still aren’t listening, they really need to catch on to the fact that in the UK we are a democracy so rather than Labour telling us what we need Labour should be asking us what we need.

Great point. They really haven't learnt anything from the overwhelming defeat in December with constituencies going blue for the first time in 90 years.

Jess will have to pull more out of the bag than just being a "fresh face"

Labour MPs still aren’t listening, they really need to catch on to the fact that in the UK we are a democracy so rather than Labour telling us what we need Labour should be asking us what we need.

Yes, it was rather apparent in the webchat that there was an awful lot about talking and real conversation and good to chat, and zero actually listening. Labour really are stuck with a layer of people at the top incapable of changing, who still believe in Mandelson's post democratic era. That the proles should shut up and just think and do what they're told by their betters. They really do believe in this. When it turns out on a basic webchat that the proles understand the laws and ramifications in ways their betters show no grasp on, and have clearly just relied on advisors, that gets even more worrying.

I would never describe my MP as my "better". I'm his employer. I'm HIS better. I think you're right though, Michelle. They believe they're our betters...

I’m disappointed. She knows bloody well that males aren’t women, but despite claiming to have worked with some of the most vulnerable and abused women, won’t stand up to protect them. Utter fucking cowardice.

I missed the Web chat and can't find it, is it still up?

@SentimentalKiller

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3797731-Webchat-with-Labour-leadership-contender-Jess-Phillips-MP-on-Monday-January-20-at-1pm

I'm his employer. I'm HIS better.

But... but... but... you hold unacceptable, ignorant views that stand in the way of the received wisdom of professional political elites and their agendas because you haven't their training and you're leading a mundane little life oblivious to the Higher Thoughts, and thus you should be re educated and punished if you resist gently led in the right direction.

Mandelson explained all this, he put it in plain sight.

DeathByPuppy
Thanks

Oh shoot, Michelle, you got me there. I'm just a small, insignificant pleb....

plebs of the world unite

This may be of interest to some...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7908273/amp/Jess-Phillips-sparks-fury-Mumsnet-saying-trans-women-women.html?__twitter_impression=true