Who else would really appreciate a polite discussion of gender issues and the concerns of women at the jess Philips webchat on Monday?

[StealthPolarBear]

I posted on the webchat thread:
Since the questions have already been asked I am not allowed to repeat similar but I want on record that self ID, its potential abuse, protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers, the protection of natal women's rights and the importance of teaching biological facts in schools are big concerns to me.

MNHQ have said they don't want any more comments or questions about gender issues on the Web chat thread which I can understand. However what I do want to make clear is the number of people who may share some or all of my concerns. Otherwise any questions about gender issues are of an equal weight to all others and in fact others, which can be repeated in a different form, may seem to gain more weight.

They did tell her that there had been a lot of questions on the subject. That's something. If she were to have time to even skim read this thread then she'll be more aware.

But alas, I think she is lost. She was my last hope.

I would like her to explain the process whereby a person of one sex becomes a person of another sex.

I would like her to tell me why cultural appropriation is railed against, and men's appropriation of, what is essentially, female culture is approved.

That's a good DM article. Waiting to see if there's comments, none yet.

If she were to have time to even skim read this thread then she'll be more aware.

I posted a link to this thread on the webchat for her. My post was deleted and I had a message from MNHQ threatening suspension.

If she were to have time to even skim read this thread then she'll be more aware.

I don’t think she gives a shit anymore, sadly. I don’t believe that she doesn’t know. That she isn’t aware of the issues faced by women. She has said that she gets ‘countless rape threats’ on a daily basis, she has a history of working with vulnerable women and women’s charities. She is not a stranger to these issues. And yet, her colours are nailed to the mast on this issue. She’s aware, she just isn’t interested.

Having actually read the web chat now, I genuinely don't understand what Jess meant by

fundamentally, during that enquiry, I couldn't understand how asking someone to live in a role as one sex or another would actually happen.

I completely agree with this statement - it is absurd to suggest that a man can live as a women and vice versa. How does she manage to get from this statement to TWAW?

I had a message from MNHQ threatening suspension.

What for??

It’s very very easy to get suspended & banned for posting about women’s rights on webchats.

Unbelievable. Will I get banned for saying MNHQ can fuck off with how they’ve handled this ? Fine.

I had no hope for JP because she is all things to all people and has no principles (now confirmed). I am more horrified at MNHQ betraying women like this. Deleting women and threatening them with bans for asking questions in a democracy so that they can still ‘tempt’ politicians on to chat about biscuits. Fuck that.

I feel like twatting the idiots who ask about 🍪, bog rolls or lipstick. Or those who post I secretly fancy Jeremy Corbyn
Honestly, no wonder we have a job to be taken seriously

I'm not surprised at all by JP's response. I hope mumsnet will now be inviting Lisa Nandy for a webchat.

So women need women only spaces but because transwomen are women, they can be included in them.
That doesn't work for me and thousands of other women who want our spaces to be safe.
You can't risk asses those "nice" transwomen when self-id has taken over. Anyone refusing access to the beardy tw will be sued for discrimination.

I don’t understand these webchats. So many questions, so few answers. (Not including the deleted ones. )

All the questions posted in advance can be ready in advance. SURELY anyone doing a decent job would prepare answers for those advance questions. A quick copy and paste and they’re answered, leaving time for the questions that come up during the live chat itself.

Anyone notice the irony of her saying 'no one’s asked that before' (regarding knocking on doors)? Well she’ll be saying no one's asked certain questions on here..... but we all know that they’ve been deleted in advance.

What a joke.

I hadn't been on this thread before, and avoided the webchat because my feelings are basically:

Why bother?

Really, why bother?

MN don't owe me anything. Politicians don't owe me anything. If they can get away with the vaguest, most meaningless wordy-words to fill a space, then that's what they'll do.

And the devil is ALWAYS in the detail, and detail is ALWAYS avoided. It's almost as if no-one wants to unequivocally state something in case they're held to account in future.

This is why I disengage with politics, because it seems like nothing concrete and positive is ever fucking achieved.

I know that's not actually the case, but look at it. Look at where we are. Brexit, Tory win, women's rights rolled back. All of it. Just people in power doing what the fuck they feel like with no conscience, honesty or actual care about the details of the policies they put in place and who is hurt by them.

They really haven't learnt anything from the overwhelming defeat in December with constituencies going blue for the first time in 90 years.

It always seems to be the way with Labour. They just blame it on other people. They never look inward.

I ended up blocking my local candidate because every single bloody question you asked about policies was responded to with done variation on "the nasty tories are worse". I directly, explicitly asked for his policies - a reason to vote for him - and got the same bitter bile. Pointless.

And the total lack of accountability - this attitude of "yeah we'll do ALL THE THINGS! Everything for everyone, heck double helpings and twice in Sundays! Well give you it all, hurrah we're not the nasty tories, vote for us, we have free stuff!" - with not a single fuck about how.

I could accept all that pope were it not for MNHQ actively misleading politicians about what people are asking. Actively deleting questions and causing them to vanish without trace. Allowing politicians to say this issue has not been raised much. It’s deliberately hiding the truth. On one subject only.

MNHQ don’t owe us anything other than the integrity and respect we expect from each other in the general course of business. And here they have shown a stunning lack of integrity and respect.

They really haven't learnt anything from the overwhelming defeat in December with constituencies going blue for the first time in 90 years.

They've lost four general elections and a referendum. They've lost Scotland. They've lost the Red Wall. They're still not listening.

Oh yeah Binterested it's totally shit. It's why I think why bother? If you get involved and engaged with one forum then they just change the rules again and move the goalposts again and you realise you expected some kind of fairness - or at least consistency - from them, but why? Why have any expectations any more?
As someone else said, I usually get why MN act the way they do, even if I don't agree with it. This is the first time I think I've voiced my frustrations but I'm not going to bother any more and I expect I'll get a message anyway.

@SentimentalKiller I think on this occasion most of those were "protest questions"

I did make the point that 200 individuals wanted to discuss the issues and how important they were. That post stood so I'd like to think she read it. I did it near the end when it was clear most weren't going to be addressed.

The whole thing is so unbelievably depressing- the heavy censoring of MNHQ, the lack of any introspection from Jess...

were it not for MNHQ actively misleading politicians about what people are asking. Actively deleting questions and causing them to vanish without trace. Allowing politicians to say this issue has not been raised much. It’s deliberately hiding the truth.

Jess said something along the lines of 'I've never heard these concerns being raised . I don't think most people are worried about them.'

This is why, Jess.

MNHQ decreed we shouldn't bother you with them.

I would like to know her views on the rights of rape victims going through the family courts being forced to be in the same room as their attacker & forced to communicate & deal with handovers of their children to their attacker. Caffcass threatened me that I had to speak to my ex husband who raped me, at the family courts, communicate with him & hand my child over for access whilst the rape investigation was still going on & due to this the CPS refused to take the case to court. I was told that unless I obeyed Caffcass orders I could lose custody of my son, I have had to cope with my rapist ex husband getting away with what he did to me as well as see him 3 times a week & having to speak to him.

@Nat6999

It may be triggering and i hope it doesnt come across as though im minimizing but this weeks Silent Witness are covering those issues in this weeks storyline. Including a family judge.

Just thought id let you know It is an upsetting watch.

Yes, me - I share your concerns. I am concerned that the meaning of the words women and female are changing to something undefineable, and that this will impact women's rights and remove the possibility of single-sex spaces where they are needed. I am concerned that that changing meaning is relying on sexist stereotypes to define boy and girl in a way which is harmful to all children. I am concerned that the concept of Self ID is open to abuse and that when people say "trans people wouldn't do that" they are missing the point. I think there are a great many reasonable concerns that need to be addressed or society will be the worse for it.

I would appreciate a polite discussion. I posted on the original thread because Jess is the MP in my friends and family's constituency and they have previously communicated with Jess on this issue.

Furthermore, I was reading the other thread about how MN users have informed parliamentary debate. Yet there's no mention of the thorny topic of identity politics on there as we are censored on this - despite MPs up and down the country being contacted by posters and despite this being a massive point of debate on here and elsewhere.

It's almost as though they are trying to erase women debating this issue