Who else would really appreciate a polite discussion of gender issues and the concerns of women at the jess Philips webchat on Monday?

[StealthPolarBear]

I posted on the webchat thread:
Since the questions have already been asked I am not allowed to repeat similar but I want on record that self ID, its potential abuse, protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers, the protection of natal women's rights and the importance of teaching biological facts in schools are big concerns to me.

MNHQ have said they don't want any more comments or questions about gender issues on the Web chat thread which I can understand. However what I do want to make clear is the number of people who may share some or all of my concerns. Otherwise any questions about gender issues are of an equal weight to all others and in fact others, which can be repeated in a different form, may seem to gain more weight.

I would like to see the other candidates on here for a Webchat. I currently have a fairly positive impression of Lisa Nandy generally. She's certainly good at handling tough questioning as is Keir Starmer. I'd also like to test their resolve on the Kool-Aid they may have drunk.

Lang is banned?? Since when??

Welsh There's a massive thread about it on FWR.

Do let @MNHQ know your thoughts...

DeathByPuppy "Whoever called it as the SwinsonSwansong was right."

That was me

@bellinisurge Lisa Nandy couldn't show her face in Wigan again if she publicly said that self ID was a great idea and anyone who feels like a woman must be treated as one!

I'm not far from Wigan @CurbsideProphet , so I agree with you. The fact it hasn't been raised on the doorstep or whatever lame excuse they are all coming out with doesn't mean people agree to it.
There is support for LGB rights, which I have no doubt is strong round here but throwing L or G or B under a bus for T would get nowhere. Live and let live but not at all costs.

My inlaws are all Wiganers @bellinisurge I don't think the self ID issue is really even known about in a lot of areas. I like Lisa Nandy and really want to know her thoughts.

The more I think about it, the more furious I get about this completely bullshit "plausible deniability" claim of it not being discussed on doorsteps.

For most of us, (if) when local candidates come knocking, we aren't expecting it, don't have speeches prepared and when caught on the hoof while the potatoes are boiling on the hob, the most we can come up with may be pressing local issues that we see everyday - bin collections, neighbourhood speeding, gangs of kids causing trouble in town etc.

But I know many people have emailed and met with local councillors and MPs and laid out concerns in great detail. For Jess (and the others) to distort the truth by weasel words like "not on the doorsteps" is craven and pathetic.

BuzzShitbag, I agree. I thought the "working class" was very carefully inserted into that comment about concerns on the doorsteps. Suggesting it’s only middle class women on Mumsnet with too much time on their hands turning self-ID into an issue. When we know full well how as soon as people do hear about what’s going on, they are aghast at how far it has already proceeded.

I absolutely agree, @BuzzShitbagBobbly & @SecondRow. Sneering bullshit.

not being discussed on doorsteps

I tried to discuss it with my canvasser. He claimed never to have heard of any party policies on the issue, and said he expected we should all live and let live as it sounded very complicated. When I asked if girls should be sharing facilities with male children who said they were also girls, he looked astonished and said he didn't think it would come to that. When I said that was what was happening and his party was supporting, he shied away nervously from the mad woman and went to knock on the next door.

DodoPatrol that is exactly what happened with the Labour candidate who knocked on my door. Had never heard of the main players attempting to dismantle women’s rights, or any of the major issues. Tried to steer it back to bin collections and libraries but I told him it was the barrier to me voting Labour and I was happy for that to go on record further up the Party.
It was all pleasant and polite, but they do know it’s a problem and they need to address it.

I raised it with our Labour canvasser who told me he had to end the conversation (because it was so offensive to him) and with Chuka Umunna who canvassed personally in our area. He did listen to be fair. Another LibDem canvasser told me had heard concerns also.

DodoPatrol Saucery Thats almost word for word what happened when I talked to them. I felt that they were aware of the issue and had worked out some trite stock answers beforehand to answer any objections.
I live in a very woke town, it would be really odd if they hadn't heard of the issue before they talked to me because they are the ones responsible for making the local Womens Centre and DV shelter mixed sex.

Looks like Jess Phillips was quite unfortunate to only knock on the thousands of doors over a five year period without someone behind them who wanted to raise the issue

I spoke to my Labour candidate (who was not elected) about it during the campaign, she listened, we had quite a long discussion and she said she was hearing this message from a lot of people.

I spoke to the two labour canvassers who knocked on my door. The both said they didn't know about self ID, and both (one man, one woman) looked very uncomfortable when I explained what it was and their party's manifesto commitment to it.

Surely, if they are proud of it as a policy, they should be emphasizing it to people on the doorstep?

'Yes, you will be glad to hear we believe that gender matters more than sex when dividing up facilities.
Yes, that's right, no barriers to it.
Yes, that's right, there is no need for any physical or medical change or intervention. It's the mind that matters.
Yes, that's right, we absolutely take anyone's word for it that they have a gender identity opposite to their sex.
Yes, we think everyone else should automatically believe this too. Unless it's a question of inheriting a title, because women might take advantage of that.

Yes, we think this matters more than clarity in official records, risk to recipients of blood products, the comfort of schoolgirls, single-sex refuges and dorms, or making the language used in cervical cancer leaflets comprehensible to all.'

Go on, chaps, own it.

No Labour canvassers knocked. But I did discuss it very thoroughly with the other 3 and absolutely would have done if Labour had bothered to call.

Incidentally, only the Tory candidate took it seriously. And he took it very seriously, especially wrt vulnerable children and young people. Are we still allowed to say the safeguarding word?

Go on, chaps, own it

Yes, why so shy? Be out and be proud of your ill-informed misogyny and homophobia! Tell the world.

If not, why not?

My green party candidate hadn't even heard of it!

My Labour canvasser looked uncomfortable, said the debate had become toxic, hand-waved about dialogue, then told me there's a lovely trans woman who works for our local council

No canvassers came to my door at all though I was ready for them! I was a bit less off about it tbh.

They used to hang around outside out local Waitrose and farmers market. DH would be hanging onto my coat tails at times as I marched over ‘I just have a question for you!’ Funnily enough, if you walk towards them the often avoid you (and I wasn’t being scary or shouty or aggressive).

A lot of Labour (and presumably other Parties) canvassers are on here, including me. A lot of us have been working to get the various Parties to understand the issue.

Problem is that, while there are canvassers who think as I do, there are other canvassers who believe TWAW. I think it highlights that it’s always a good idea to ask the actual candidate what they think.