Who else would really appreciate a polite discussion of gender issues and the concerns of women at the jess Philips webchat on Monday?

[StealthPolarBear]

I posted on the webchat thread:
Since the questions have already been asked I am not allowed to repeat similar but I want on record that self ID, its potential abuse, protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers, the protection of natal women's rights and the importance of teaching biological facts in schools are big concerns to me.

MNHQ have said they don't want any more comments or questions about gender issues on the Web chat thread which I can understand. However what I do want to make clear is the number of people who may share some or all of my concerns. Otherwise any questions about gender issues are of an equal weight to all others and in fact others, which can be repeated in a different form, may seem to gain more weight.

Respected

That’s a good one.

I think I'm very close to getting banned now too and it saddens me. I've been here about fifteen years, I've loved MN and all the clever and witty MNers, and I was grateful they allowed a better level of free speech (to date) than many places. I don't want to be banned as A I'm also banned from Twitter and B I'm very fond of this username and also C I have a very boring life and MN occupies a lot of it

But seriously also, I like to think I've been part of the MN community for years (alright not so much now it's got so much bigger but in the past) - part of the people supporting each other on SN etc (when my DCs were younger), part of long running threads/quiches, got involved in charity things from here, had a bloody MN mug, even had threads in Classics

I absolutely love the FWR section, it's by far my favourite part of the Internet anywhere (The Litter Tray is second) but the behaviour over this webchat, especially in light of JP's replies which we aren't allowed to comment on or question, has really made me doubt how long I will be here.

It feels a bit boasty and big headed to say that MN as well as Labour (someone please word this bit better for me ) should be trying to keep us, not drive us out, but I think it's true. Loyal "supporters" for years - I have recruited a lot of people to MN and knocked on a lot of doors myself for Labour in the past. You would like to think we would be listened to and taken seriously not silenced and dismissed (She said optimistically)

I totally agree datun. But at least she is out in the open.

How on earth can she be so misinformed when she has been so heavily involved in the trans equality inquiry and the resulting report?

Quite. And proud of her involvement in it. She should read Kathleen Stock's excellent article about that report, available here
medium.com/@kathleenstock/womens-place-talk-full-text-house-of-lords-oct-10th-2018-b1f3d70c4559

It's really nothing to be proud of, Jess.

Absolutely shocking, @ThePurported.

Don't limit it to one question before asking her what her favourite colour is.

Although in all fairness, I've snarked freely about being limited to silly questions in the past few days, and reading the list of the standing questions this morning before the webchat started, I was completely and utterly wrong. Those questions, on all subjects, were all heavy weight ones and made for impressive reading.

Which should be expected by a female candidate, coming to a female centred place with a heavy female usership, who is hoping to be a future prime minister and therefore needs to look as if they take the female half of the population seriously.

Go woke, go broke

Bye Labour

Here reply to the question about the GRA contained this statement.

I couldn't understand how asking someone to live in a role as one sex or another would actually happen. It seemed bound entirely in 1950s perceptions of men and women.

Quite apart from the fact the the GRA doesn't require anything more than changing their name on a few documents, how can anyone say this and then not connect the dots enough to realise that it's not possible to 'live as' the opposite sex without invoking these stereotypes?

It shouldn't take too much thought to realise that if we are trying to do away with stereotypes, so that we can all live as we wish, regardless of our sex, there is no point in transitioning. Apart from the tiny number of people who experience extreme hatred of their sexed bodies, why do people need to transition at all? Why not just be themselves?

Puppy It really is shocking. That inquiry was a sham.

"Take Susie Green, Chair of the charity Mermaids, which supports children in transition and their parents. Green is a former IT manager and parent of a trans child. She is quoted as recommending that puberty-blockers should be made available to older children who are 16 and 17, as well as younger ones. No consideration is given of how this is medically justified."

The same person who recently tweeted:
"25 years ago My first child, 2 years old, and I was starting to think that perhaps my child was gay as they were so different to the other little 'boys' as the things they were drawn to were largely seen as for girls."

This stood out to me too Crone

Complete lack of understanding that sex and sex role stereotypes are completely different things.

One is biology. The other is old fashioned, 1950’s gendered nonsense. We need to unhitch the two. Not weld them together permanently and fix the gender as immutable.

Absolutely hopeless. And not just on gender issues but across the board. Hopeless. Bluster bluster bluster and no substance whatsoever.

Is anybody in the Labour Party thinking about the actual electorate at all?

I don't think its 1950s. I think it's 2010s and seemingly 2020s too. I don't think stereotypes have ever been so bad

I've just read all her answers through again. Any questioner with actual, granular detail on the issue they asked about will have been left unsatisfied. There was no policy substance in any of her answers. Embarrassing.

No vision for the country either. No joined up thoughts communicating her overall theme.

Sorry to serially post. I just think I'm in shock that this is an actual leadership candidate for one of our main political parties.

I'm tired. Is anyone else tired? I'm exhausted, pissed off, truly disheartened and honestly, 100% grateful that I'm old, terribly terribly old and by the time the human race has fucked with its sexual organs so much that we start to die off as a species, I'll be well on my way to dissolving into nothing underground, in my box.

I was a bit disappointed she didn't answer my question although I appreciate she can't answer them all. I asked about her vision for education because I really want to hear something positive from Labour and I thought it would be a subject she'd be passionate about.

I tend to think she's been honest with us about what she thinks re women's rights. I don't agree with her but at least we know now.

I'm not tired. But I am resigned to Labour's continued descent into irrelevance. I'll just have to look elsewhere for the answers.

I was disappointed at the webchat. Are any of the other leadership candidates coming on here?

I think they're hoping to get them all on, MopsRUs, but I could have misunderstood.

Just to say if I'd got here earlier I would have agreed with the OP about the need for open discussion... But we're after the event now!

I'm a Mumsnet dabbler, dastardly Twitter being my main form of social media. Despite problems with this particular debate (& Phillips inability to understand the contradictions and harms of her woolly position) the posters on FWR Mumsnet have been a shining beacon of good sense, critical analysis and excellent humour during this assault on women's rights. Long may the platform continue!

I'm depressingly disappointed by her answers.

When I hear the name Jess Phillips all I can hear in my head is her voice, with its lovely accent. And her passion about the things she cares about.

I didn't expect much, but I did expect her to be able to differentiate between women and transwomen. I also expected her to understand what the GRA entails. To know about the spousal exit clause and how it works. And to care about women who can't cope with male bodies in close proximity to them because they have been raped and abused and suffer from PTSD.

Sadly for so many families, I didn't really expect her to have a lot of knowledge about children and young people who are being affirmed as trans without proper scrutiny - and then started on a medical path that potentially leads to sterility and a lifetime of medical issues.

I can only conclude she's deliberately looking the other way and is making no effort on purpose to think these things through.

God, this is so depressing. The extent of policy capture appears total. Are webchats going to be of any value if MNHQ is going to vanish unpopular questions?

If an MP can be shown, with clear evidence provided (that being a quote from their own web chat) that they have misunderstood, misrepresented or plain not read an act of Parliament that they are campaigning to change, then what happens? Where do you go to?

It's the wilful blindness that's so fucking depressing. Refusing to listen. Refusing to read. Refusing to see. Refusing to learn. Refusing to think. Refusing to discuss. Refusing to acknowledge reality. Refusing to consider, for even a moment, that they've been told porkie pies. It really is a case of lobotomies all round.

I think they're hoping to get them all on, MopsRUs, but I could have misunderstood.

But I’m not that optimistic about the others either.

Whatever they might believe privately, if they say it on here it will instantly get screenshotted by the Misogynist Monitors of Twitter and they’ll face a social media pile on. Are any of them that brave?