Who else would really appreciate a polite discussion of gender issues and the concerns of women at the jess Philips webchat on Monday?

[StealthPolarBear]

I posted on the webchat thread:
Since the questions have already been asked I am not allowed to repeat similar but I want on record that self ID, its potential abuse, protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers, the protection of natal women's rights and the importance of teaching biological facts in schools are big concerns to me.

MNHQ have said they don't want any more comments or questions about gender issues on the Web chat thread which I can understand. However what I do want to make clear is the number of people who may share some or all of my concerns. Otherwise any questions about gender issues are of an equal weight to all others and in fact others, which can be repeated in a different form, may seem to gain more weight.

Please add me in too Stealth.

This concerns me and my family directly. The issues are so broad and profoundly affect women and children.

We need politicians like Jess to see and recognise what the problems and concerns are, admit this publicly and to address them.

Regardless of what happens on the web chat, this is not going away anytime soon.

I'm surprised at the way this has been handled .... but I suppose that tells you everything you need to know .... I don't really understand why she would ask to webchat with us, but not want us to speak?

I'm not a Labour Party member, but if I was this would concern me a lot and I wouldn't be able to support her application, which is a shame....but let's face it Jess would be torn apart by the UK press so I hope for her sake she won't get the leadership.

None of the MPs who webchat with us actually want us to speak about women’s rights though. At the very most they want to toss off a quick platitude in our direction and get back to what they want to talk about.

What is it you think they actually want to talk about? Anything to make them look good?
I still hold out hope that JP actually feels passionate about the issues that are important to her and isnt all about self serving. Fwiw I'm not a member and so won't be voting. I also know very little about the other candidates.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/19/hustings-labour-leader-jess-phillips

I wonder how this will affect tomorrow’s web chat?

She says she isn’t going to try to be ‘statesmanlike’ any more. Maybe we’ll get an actual opinion from her?

Wow. So she has committed to speaking her mind rather than delivering soundbites.

Wow. So she has committed to speaking her mind rather than delivering soundbites.

And my name is Turtle.

Just in case JP looks at this rhread, I want to quote a little of what Michelle said on the 'under the bus' thread

Jess, there is no point in you worrying about women having to sell access to their bodies to males, when you're depriving women of any bodily respect, privacy or equal humanity. You are rendering females a subclass. A subordinate class.

Own it. If you are going to do these abhorrent things, have the guts to face those females and face up to the realities of what you are doing to them.

Over 400 posts now although more than 70 are me
189 agree
2 disagree
1 on the fence

Just to be clear the 189 is individual posters, multiple supportive posts by the same poster aren't double counted.
While it's no surprise the supportive posts outweigh the unsupportive ones (as the title asked you to sign in if you support me) we have more individual posters who have made it known they're concerned about Al the issues raised than there are posts in total on that Web chat thread (126 as at my last check)

so, 189 concerned enough to post on gender issues
126 concerned enough to post on other issues - in total

Tells you something

And that's assuming the 126 are all individual posters posting on separate topics and not a single one on gender issues :)
Fingers crossed the following summary works. Would appreciate feedback. Starting to think it's too long and I should have kept it snappy but so many people had written good stuff.

These are issues that affect the fundamental rights of half the population. It is across every conceivable layer of public policy, and its affect is from cradle to grave. Are you open to hearing views?

• self ID and its potential abuse: do you believe sex predators would take advantage of self-ID to gain access to vulnerable women and children?
• Reform of the Gender Recognition Act - consultation in June 2018, over 100,000 responses , where is it now?
• Spousal escape clause (which you described as 'awful') - it allows women to exit marriage before its terms change entirely. * Please note at leaset 3 of the women who recorded their support are directly affected *. How do you reconcile this with own views on domestic abuse?
• protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers. Given time many would develop into health homosexuals, however puberty blockers can mean they never develop the ability to enjoy sexual pleasure
• social contagion aspects of gender issues in young people
• entrenchment of gender roles - boys don’t play with dolls, if they do, they're girls. Why can't we focus on removing gender stereotypes?
• the protection of natal women's rights
• trans women in sports - male bodied people competing against female bodied women - aspects of safety and fairness
• would a Parliament of 50% men and 50% transwomen be truly representative?
• the importance of teaching biological facts in schools
• what is the definition of a woman?
• the influence on policy and on institutions such as schools by mermaids and stonewall when (correct me if I'm wrong) the content is not evidence based. Schools under pressure to affirm children in social transition despite that being against Tavistock&Portman recommendations.
• treatment of lesbians at Pride
• Need for sex segregation in women's refuges
• Mixed prisons - we know women have come to harm, and the 2016 PSI on Care and management of Transexual Prisoners has been withdrawn as a result
• Mixed sex hospital wards generally (there have already been sex assaults).
• Vulnerable/elderly people treated or provided intimate care by a person of the opposite sex on the basis of their gender - unable to complain. Social care in home - how will we ensure the safety of these people?
• Mixed sex locked psych wards (there have already been sex assaults).
• Police recording non crimes in databases that may be reported on a DBS check as a crime.
• police recording crimes by Gender rather than sex, so particular crimes are apparently rising by women offenders
• Free speech generally and on university campuses.

And

• attempts (on social media in particular) to silence women who raise concerns about the above
• people being disciplined at work for stating their views/biological fact
• are concerns always prejudiced, even if lots of people share them?
• Would you have preferred Mumsnet to have left this webchat uncensored or are you pleased they have censored it on your behalf?

Great work, Stealth. Many pints deserved.

Two edit suggestions from me - it should read healthy homosexuals, you've missed off the "y", and add in "and sacked" to the disciplined at work point.

Thank you very much for doing this.

Wil correct the healthy thing.
I debated over 'and sacked' but mf wasn't was she, her contract wasn't extended. Ithink it's awful what happened to her but I don't want any accusations of exaggeration.
What's the plan? Is someone willing to tweet her?

@StealthPolarBear - against NHS guidelines as well as Tavistock & Portman, I think? Watch and wait is the official recommendation.

These are issues that affect the fundamental rights of half the population. They are across every conceivable layer of public policy, and affect us from cradle to grave. Are you open to hearing views?

• self ID and its potential abuse: do you believe sex predators would take advantage of self-ID to gain access to vulnerable women and children?
• Reform of the Gender Recognition Act - consultation in June 2018, over 100,000 responses , where is it now?
• Spousal escape clause (which you described as 'awful') - it allows women to exit marriage before its terms change entirely. * Please note at leaset 3 of the women who recorded their support are directly affected *. How do you reconcile this with own views on domestic abuse?
• protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers. Given time many would develop into healthy homosexuals, however puberty blockers can mean they never develop the ability to enjoy sexual pleasure
• social contagion aspects of gender issues in young people
• entrenchment of gender roles - boys don’t play with dolls, if they do, they're girls. Why can't we focus on removing gender stereotypes?
• the protection of natal women's rights
• trans women in sports - male bodied people competing against female bodied women - aspects of safety and fairness
• would a Parliament of 50% men and 50% transwomen be truly representative?
• the importance of teaching biological facts in schools
• what is the definition of a woman?
• the influence on policy and on institutions such as schools by mermaids and stonewall when (correct me if I'm wrong) the content is not evidence based. Schools under pressure to affirm children in social transition despite that being against Tavistock&Portman recommendations.
• treatment of lesbians at Pride
• Need for sex segregation in women's refuges
• Mixed prisons - we know women have come to harm, and the 2016 PSI on Care and management of Transexual Prisoners has been withdrawn as a result
• Mixed sex hospital wards generally (there have already been sex assaults).
• Vulnerable/elderly people treated or provided intimate care by a person of the opposite sex on the basis of their gender - unable to complain. Social care in home - how will we ensure the safety of these people?
• Mixed sex locked psych wards (there have already been sex assaults).
• Police recording non crimes in databases that may be reported on a DBS check as a crime.
• police recording crimes by Gender rather than sex, so particular crimes are apparently rising by women offenders
• Free speech generally and on university campuses.

And

• attempts (on social media in particular) to silence women who raise concerns about the above
• people being disciplined at work for stating their views/biological fact
• are concerns always prejudiced, even if lots of people share them?
• Would you have preferred Mumsnet to have left this webchat uncensored or are you pleased they have censored it on your behalf?

I would hope t and p leads on behalf of the NHS on this issue? Will add

Aargh getting too long to copy and paste

I'd like the issue to be discussed openly and honestly.
I'm frankly appalled to find that MN are deleting questions. I'm beginning to wonder whether there might be more honest discussion on Netmums. If I find that there is I shall be going over there until MNHQ get their act together and stop taking the piss out of us.

I ❤️ you Stealth. That is all.

These are issues that affect the fundamental rights of half the population. They are across every conceivable layer of public policy, and affect us from cradle to grave. Are you open to hearing views?

• self ID and its potential abuse: do you believe sex predators would take advantage of self-ID to gain access to vulnerable women and children?
• Reform of the Gender Recognition Act - consultation in June 2018, over 100,000 responses , where is it now?
• Spousal escape clause (which you described as 'awful') - it allows women to exit marriage before its terms change entirely. Please note at leaset 3 of the women who recorded their support are directly affected . How do you reconcile this with own views on domestic abuse?
• protection of vulnerable young people from those who promote transition which can sometimes include puberty blockers. Given time many would develop into healthy homosexuals, however puberty blockers can mean they never develop the ability to enjoy sexual pleasure
• social contagion aspects of gender issues in young people
• entrenchment of gender roles - boys don’t play with dolls, if they do, they're girls. Why can't we focus on removing gender stereotypes?
• the protection of natal women's rights
• trans women in sports - male bodied people competing against female bodied women - aspects of safety and fairness
• would a Parliament of 50% men and 50% transwomen be truly representative?
• the importance of teaching biological facts in schools
• what is the definition of a woman?
• the influence on policy and on institutions such as schools by mermaids and stonewall when (correct me if I'm wrong) the content is not evidence based. Schools under pressure to affirm children in social transition despite that being against NHS recommendations (reference available) .
• treatment of lesbians at Pride
• Need for sex segregation in women's refuges
• Mixed prisons - we know women have come to harm, and the 2016 PSI on Care and management of Transexual Prisoners has been withdrawn as a result
• Mixed sex hospital wards generally (there have already been sex assaults).
• Vulnerable/elderly people treated or provided intimate care by a person of the opposite sex on the basis of their gender - unable to complain. Social care in home - how will we ensure the safety of these people?
• Mixed sex locked psych wards (there have already been sex assaults).
• Police recording non crimes in databases that may be reported on a DBS check as a crime.
• police recording crimes by Gender rather than sex, so particular crimes are apparently rising by women offenders
• Free speech generally and on university campuses.

And

• attempts (on social media in particular) to silence women who raise concerns about the above
• people being disciplined at work for stating their views/biological fact
• are concerns always prejudiced, even if lots of people share them?
• Would you have preferred Mumsnet to have left this webchat uncensored or are you pleased they have censored it on your behalf?

Please add my name too. I didn't vote Labour in the general election, despite having voted Labour in most of the previous elections I've been eligible to vote in.

Agree with the questions having been asked. At my dc school they are talking about forcing (although they don't use that word) the children to use other children's preferred pronouns. I don't understand why we are telling children they must lie.

I'm beginning to wonder whether there might be more honest discussion on Netmums. If I find that there is I shall be going over there until MNHQ get their act together

I would do anything in umbrage but I won't do that. No I won't do that...