Is my child racist?! I don’t know what to do!

[Namechangefour]

Before I begin, I should say: I’m mixed race though look very white.

I was telling my my 5-year-old that I am going to look for someone to look after him after-school one day a week from next term. And he said, “Fine but please can you not choose anyone black?” I drilled this down and down and down and he meant what he said. Not someone black.

I said “Why?”

And he said “I don’t know.”

I said, “You know grandma was black?” (He never met her, she died before he was born).

And he said, “I know, but I don’t want you to choose anyone black.”

I said, “You know mummy is half black?”

And he said, “I know, but please don’t choose anyone black.”

I had absolutely no idea what to say. I remember reading once that you shouldn’t shame children for saying things like that, and we were in a cafe at the time, so all I said was, “You know what you said isn’t good, right?”

And he said, “I don’t know all the things yet!”

I didn’t want to get into it (mostly because I didn’t want to get it wrong) so I said we’d talk about it later.

But I am still totally unable to think what to say. I’m heartbroken. Completely and utterly heartbroken.

Can someone give me some advice? I don’t know what to do! And I don’t know why he’s saying things like that! We live somewhere pretty multicultural in london, though his school is quite cringe-worthily white and middle class.

If "backdoor selection" includes unintended selection, why does it go through the backdoor? If it's unintended they'd just put in through the front door.

Don't be telling him he's wrong - he's only 5 - just tell him to trust you to find the best person and forget what colour they turn out to be, because you won't be choosing by colour!

“ Paying bus fares is an example of racism?”

No. It is something that would have a disproportionate impact on disadvantaged people. So backdoor selection.

It's pretty cringeworthy watching people so aggressively defend their own ignorance about the existence of institutional racism. Just because you don't want to believe in something - or feel threatened by people acknowledging it - doesn't mean it ceases to exist.

No. It is something that would have a disproportionate impact on disadvantaged people. So backdoor selection

Bus fares are ‘back door selection?’ You really are struggling to make a valid point, aren’t you?

Of course bus fares are back door selection. People who can't afford them will decide the school isn't an option for them.

In general, children from low income households do less well than other children. The disadvantage gap is a well known phenomenon in education. Even if you do well in primary school, you're less likely to get good gcses if you are from a disadvantaged background.

That's a fact with statistics to back it up.

Students from non-disadvantaged backgrounds tend to make better progress. More students making good progress used to be integral to getting a good/outstanding ofsted- so there is an incentive for schools to select by wealth if they can. Not all schools do this, because some have other ideological aims, but in my opinion there are schools which take active steps to select by wealth (look at some of the admissions codes/priority admissions areas for schools on the outskirts of Bristol, for example).

BAME children are more likely to come from disadvantaged families. Some groups on average perform really well at school. But they are more likely to be excluded by admissions policies. Their parents are also less likely to understand the school admissions process.

Anyway, none of this helps OP.

“ Bus fares are ‘back door selection?’ You really are struggling to make a valid point, aren’t you?”

It’s something that makes it difficult for disadvantaged people to use the school.

This thread is hilarious...

@ BertrandRussell re your previous comments about poverty amongst poc and the church. Actually the churches (especially Catholic) in bigger cities have stayed relevant specifically because of refugees. Birmingham, London, Manchester, Leicester — the Catholic congregation in almost every major UK city is now predominately non-white. In many places, eg Leicester and Birmingham, it’s impossible to tell the difference between people of colour of different religions / countries unless they wear religious clothing. For example in Leicester most of the local catholic communities are Indian / Sri Lankan / Pakistani.

“Actually the churches (especially Catholic) in bigger cities have stayed relevant specifically because of refugees”

Maybe in those cases then, the school population reflects the make up of the community in which it sits.

Hi JassyRadlett, I asked you before if you actually knew what the term racist meant. Do you?

Yes. You seem to have trouble with the concept of indirect racial discrimination - things that aren’t racist on the face of it, but still disproportionately disadvantage BAME people, because of the populations they target/discourage.

When you married your partner, were you racist? Were white men disadvantageous because they were less likely to be chosen by you? Are you racist then?

What a ridiculous statement. I wasn’t aware that marrying me was a state-provided service.

(My husband is white, so am I, why this that relevant? And why are people making such odd assumptions? Why even assume I’m married? A person can be white and want to change institutions and system that discriminate against people who aren’t.)

Or you can say if you want to go to a criteria-led Church school, follow the Church. If not, go elsewhere or start your own religious-based or non-religious based school and send your child there. You have equal opportunity to attend any school in the UK as much as any other race.

Grand, as long as the church pays. If the state pays, it’s not ok to have a system that gives disproportionate advantages to white, better-off kids.

The minute you advocate greater barriers to entry - including ‘start your own school’, as if that’s in reach for most people - that the already privileged group doesn’t have to navigate, rather than dealing with the structural problems creating unequal access, you’re ok with that privilege being further cemented.

@BovaryX Bus fares are ‘back door selection?’ You really are struggling to make a valid point, aren’t you?

Yes, they absolutely are back door selection. We have a school 1/2 a mile down the road and another 10-15 miles away. We didn't go and view the 10-15 mile away one to see if it was the best school for any of my three because the fare for the bus is around £500 a year which we don't have to pay upfront. We are more than happy with our local school but the point is that the decision was made for us that our children would have to go there.

^ That's £500 each by the way, not £500 total.

@chillykiwi- surely if you wanted your children to go to the other school you’d get a better job so you could pay the bus fare?

We didn't go and view the 10-15 mile away one to see if it was the best school for any of my three because the fare for the bus is around £500 a year which we don't have to pay upfront. We are more than happy with our local school but the point is that the decision was made for us that our children would have to go there.

I feel the same about my car choices. I didn't go and view the Porsche because it cost £30k, I'm more than happy with my second hand VW but the point is the decision was made for us that we would have to buy the VW.

There was absolutely no opportunity for us to have the Porsche. There was no individual agency at all in our life. We were totally at the mercy of the Porsche dealership and their unfair - and frankly racist because I am mixed race - rules about being able to afford the Porsche in order to have it.

Yes let’s compare universal primary education with having a car.

What about delivering in a hospital 15 miles away because the one 1 mile away only admits Hindus and Muslims?

And the one that is a mile away is MUCH better but hey universal healthcare is not a right, you are getting it for free but it’s faith based so go a little further for a poorer hospital won’t you?

Not forgetting that we have all paid for said universal state education....

I feel the same about my car choices. I didn't go and view the Porsche because it cost £30k, I'm more than happy with my second hand VW but the point is the decision was made for us that we would have to buy the VW.

So - state school choice should be a commercially driven choice, like buying a car? Poor people should have fewer choices when it comes to state education? Nice. Really nice.

Maybe we should restrict the best NHS hospitals to the rich as well.

Do you really draw no distinction between state services and commercial purchases?

I suspect that Deveraux either does not use state education in this country or does not live in this country.

HuloBeraal
Yes let’s compare universal primary education with having a car.

Yes, let's compare the individual's responsibility to qualify to receive an equally available product and service, that's wholly up to you to qualify for, with the individual's responsibility to qualify for another equally available product and service, that's also up to you to qualify for.

Yes, let's.

Huh? You don’t ‘qualify’ for it other than by being a legal resident. How is that the same as owning a car???

I don’t pay for YOU to have a car but I do pay for ALL our children to have universal (key word) primary education.

So - state school choice should be a commercially driven choice, like buying a car?

There's a fantastic state school in London, called the Latymer School, you may have heard about it.

It has, let's pick a number of out the sky, say 100 places. What do you think the parents of Britain, whose children are all eligible to go to the Latymer School, no matter what their income, race, need to do to apply for their children to go to this school?

Which is why I am comparing education to healthcare. We would never stand for discrimination based on faith in healthcare (note for all the pedants I said discrimination not racism). Why do we tolerate it in our education system in the 21st century and then justify it??

I live in a bubble my city gives free bus passes to everyone who lives more than 3m from their secondary school. I just assumed all councils did similar.
(I know this because my parents house was 2.9 miles from my secondary school and it was a long walk home with textbooks!)

For your DS OP could you hang out with your cousins more often if they are local, invite them for Sunday lunch/go for a coffee etc?

DS has never said anything negative about being mixed race (mind you, he's not even 4) but he says he's brown like daddy, and mummy is pink. When looking at nurseries that was something we thought about - we picked the one where he wasn't the only non-white DC we saw.