Is my child racist?! I don’t know what to do!

[Namechangefour]

Before I begin, I should say: I’m mixed race though look very white.

I was telling my my 5-year-old that I am going to look for someone to look after him after-school one day a week from next term. And he said, “Fine but please can you not choose anyone black?” I drilled this down and down and down and he meant what he said. Not someone black.

I said “Why?”

And he said “I don’t know.”

I said, “You know grandma was black?” (He never met her, she died before he was born).

And he said, “I know, but I don’t want you to choose anyone black.”

I said, “You know mummy is half black?”

And he said, “I know, but please don’t choose anyone black.”

I had absolutely no idea what to say. I remember reading once that you shouldn’t shame children for saying things like that, and we were in a cafe at the time, so all I said was, “You know what you said isn’t good, right?”

And he said, “I don’t know all the things yet!”

I didn’t want to get into it (mostly because I didn’t want to get it wrong) so I said we’d talk about it later.

But I am still totally unable to think what to say. I’m heartbroken. Completely and utterly heartbroken.

Can someone give me some advice? I don’t know what to do! And I don’t know why he’s saying things like that! We live somewhere pretty multicultural in london, though his school is quite cringe-worthily white and middle class.

My DD, same age, said she didn't like dark children. I asked why and it basically boiled down to the fact that a couple of older black children had frowned at her and made her feel a little scared.

It was a great opportunity to discuss differences, discrimination etc. She really listened, understood and hasn't said anything since.

One of her friends is black and another is half black. When she said she didn't like dark children she wasn't even referring to her own friends as she didn't even make that connection. She just generalised which is fairly common behaviour for five year olds.

I never for one second thought she was racist.

Of course he doesnt know why he said it. Hes 5

You have made a deliberate choice to send your child to a faith school because it is comparable to being at a private school. That was your choice and yet you complain you don’t want him to be at the faith school? Then send him to the local non faith school.

Are you hard of reading?

I did not want him to go to a faith school. I applied for a non-faith school. We didn’t get in, because only about 50% of local schools are non-faith and the faith schools take so many kids from other boroughs that the community schools are massively oversubscribed.

We are lucky that this school had a poor Ofsted at the time and its faith applications dropped massively, so more local kids got in. Our other choice was a poor school on the other side of the borough. Also CofE, as it happens.

I did not choose this. This is what the admissions system and state funded faith schools results in. Take your arrogance and ignorance elsewhere, please.

Wow. You come across as belligerent and rude. Your argument is that faith based schools are better if they are in wealthier areas? And if they are not, they are indistinguishable from other state schools? And they are inherently racist because they are faith based?

Does my child have an equal chance of getting into my local state school as my neighbour’s kid. His parents are white British and follow their traditional religion, Christianity. We’re of Indian descent and follow our traditional religion - we’re Sikh. The local state school is CofE and prioritises children of Christians. It’s fully state-funded.

OK. "traditional" religion is a bit weird description. Just say they follow the religion they've chosen, and you follow yours. I'm sure you agree, white British doesn't have one "traditional" religion any more than Asians do.

Answer: obviously not.
Disagree. It depends where you draw the line about "opportunity" and "chance". You both have equal opportunity to go to that school. The school exists, it is open to people of all races. Given its criteria which is solely based on religion and not race as you said, your chances are lowered because of your choice to follow a religion that is not prioritised by the school. Your chances are lowered because of your choice of religion, absolutely nothing to do with your race.

We’ve been offered a school a mile and a half away.
Great, take it!

It’s not great but it’s the only option available to us because there’s a shortage of school places in the borough.
It's the only option available to you because of your choices. If you made different choices about your beliefs, you would have equal chance of attending the other school. If you moved elsewhere you would have different opportunities, possibly far greater of attending a school that you would like. You choose to live where you do, you choose to follow the religion you do.

The neighbour’s kid will go to the school down the road, a short walk away.
Because they meet the criteria. It is not up to the world to change criteria to suit your choices.

I come across as rude when people make totally unfounded accusations about me in a rude way. I apologise if your post was based on misreading rather than ignorant assumptions, though. I should have checked that.

The facts show that when schools are able to select their intake, whether in wealthy areas or not, they end up with a wealthier intake than their surrounding communities. This holds true for selection by faith, and academic selection and (obviously) house price selection where the correlation is well established.

A wealthier cohort will statistically also be a whiter cohort, and a cohort with more educated parents.

It’s not about whether the area is rich or not. It’s that a selective school takes the children who are richer. And it’s only selective faith schools that perform better than their surrounding population.

You don't know why then?

Well yes I do that’s the point.

Surely you could tell me exactly what it is I am not understanding? Otherwise how can you make the appraisal I have so little of it? What have I missed?

I could, I just cba. It’s very obvious from your comments that you don’t understand the integrality of religion to Eastern cultures. It’s not my job to educate you.

Thanks @Devereux1. Good to have it confirmed that you think it’s totally fine for a white kid practising his traditional faith should have better and easier access to state education than a brown kid practising his traditional faith. Given that’s your stance on race and racial discrimination it’s easy to see you and I aren’t going to have a sudden meeting of minds.

Don’t know why you keep saying ‘you’ though, and are focusing on the individual? My argument is that the system is discriminatory, and shouts change so that all children have an equal opportunity to access the education funded by the state. As I’ve said, I’m cool with faith places being allocated based on the financial contribution of the church to running and maintaining the school.

Obviously selective schools outperform non selective schools. Faith schools by definition can restrict entry to pupils of that faith. That’s not racist. It’s true of every faith school, not only those which are CoE. Your assertion that the system is inherently racist? Poor white kids are also at the mercy of poor state schools.

TatianaLarina
I could, I just cba. It’s very obvious from your comments that you don’t understand the integrality of religion to Eastern cultures. It’s not my job to educate you.
There you go again. It's obvious .. you don't understand blah blah blah. I'm not asking you to educate me, or even provide me with any research. I'm asking you to back up your claim and show what I have "don't understand". Strange, you don't seem able to...

Obviously selective schools outperform non selective schools.

Sadly not obvious to everyone! There are a lot of people, including on this thread, who think faith schools perform better because they’re religious, rather than recognising the reality.

Faith schools by definition can restrict entry to pupils of that faith. That’s not racist.

It doesn’t have to be intentionally racist to have racist impacts.

It’s true of every faith school, not only those which are CoE.

Yes, but 98% of the faith schools in the country are either CofE (68%) or Catholic (30%). Both of which are disproportionately white and disproportionately above average in terms of income, though the latter is less pronounced for Catholics.

Your assertion that the system is inherently racist? Poor white kids are also at the mercy of poor state schools.

I’ve said many times on this thread that the admissions system as a whole discriminates not only by race but against children who are poor. The system privileges white, middle class children. And therefore discriminates against children who aren’t.

I’d like it to change.

JassyRadlett
Good to have it confirmed that you think it’s totally fine for a white kid practising his traditional faith should have better and easier access to state education than a brown kid practising his traditional faith.
Why do you think that's racist when the criteria isn't based on race? That you happen to be brown is not a causation factor here, your religion is. Do you understand the difference between causation and correlation? Why do you desperately want to believe that this is racist, even when you know it's not?

Given that’s your stance on race and racial discrimination it’s easy to see you and I aren’t going to have a sudden meeting of minds.
Not when you see anything in society whose outcome might be that non-whites don't have the same as whites, no matter what the reasons behind it is, as "racist", no we most definitely don't.

I'm mixed race by the way. I don't own a Mayfair flat, I can't afford one. Do you think the flat owners in Mayfair are racist because I can't buy one of their flats?

Don’t know why you keep saying ‘you’ though, and are focusing on the individual? My argument is that the system is discriminatory, and shouts change so that all children have an equal opportunity to access the education funded by the state. As I’ve said, I’m cool with faith places being allocated based on the financial contribution of the church to running and maintaining the school.

Meant to remove most of the last para above.

Don’t know why you keep saying ‘you’ though, and are focusing on the individual?
Because your post which I was answering was all about you and used "I"/"We".

Devereaux- did you know that BAME people form a disproportionately high %age of poor and disadvantaged people?

Strange, you don't seem able to...

Lazy ass ignorance online is not my problem. Educate yourself or don’t - it’s no skin off my nose either way.

TatianaLarina
There you go again. I don't know if you're deliberately misunderstanding to try to abdicate responsibility, or if you just can't read.

When you say to someone else that "it just shows how little you understand x", you must realise that you obviously already know what they are not understanding for you to say that in the first place?

Unless you just throw that comment around without thinking as some kind of weak soundbite to cop out?

I'm not asking for any education. Just what you apparently already know. What am I missing then? Last chance, go on Tatiana, you can do it!

Of course I know what you’re not understanding. You can read up on Eastern cultures yourself and see how integral religion is to culture for yourself. Or not. It’s up to you. I have no further interest in this discussion.

It doesn’t have to be intentionally racist to have racist impacts

Intention is irrelevant. Faith schools restrict intake to children of that faith. That is true of all faith schools, irrespective of which faith they are representing. That is not racist because faith and race are not synonymous.

“ Intention is irrelevant”

But consequences aren’t.

It doesn’t have to be intentionally racist to have racist impacts

Possibly the single, most dangerous and insane comments I've ever read. This kind of thinking alone is responsible for so much of the insane SJW nonsense we're seeing around now. It's such a deeply stupid and illogical thing to say.

I don’t pay taxes to fund a flat in Mayfair.
My son didn’t choose to be Hindu. He is considered Hindu because that is the faith he was born into.
I could ‘choose’ to fraudulently change religion to get him into our nearest school. That would be a false choice.

It may not be racist but it is discriminatory. Deeply discriminatory. We were rejected from our top three choices because we are not Christian. They also happen to the best performing schools in our borough.

Why don’t we create a separate traffic lane for Ferraris? Why not? We all pay for the service but some are superior to others. Let’s ‘chose’ to reward those who ‘chose’ a better car. No?

Bertrand
I would advise you to read my comment again. Faith schools restrict selection to students of that faith. This is true of all faith schools not just CoE. That is not racist. Because race and faith are not synonymous. If you object to faith schools as a concept? Say so. But claiming their restrictive entry is racism doesn’t cut it.

Better still let’s get the Asian doctors to only treat the Asian kids. You know my son who spent 69 days in ICU would have had stellar treatment because every one of his doctors was Asian (and all his nurses were Filipino). The white kid in the incubator next to me, wouldn’t be as lucky. But it’s his parent’s ‘choice’ eih?

All faith schools are discriminatory btw. All of them. It is wrong. Not just the CoE ones.

Let’s say Rosa left Manila and came to London. Her children go to the excellent Catholic school. Faith schools restrict entry to pupils of that faith. Stop conflating faith and race to make the unsubstantiated accusation that faith schools are racist.