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Original poster

London Bridge incident **WARNING from MNHQ - graphic content**

455 replies

Beveren · 29/11/2019 14:27

Anyone there? Reports are sketchy at the moment. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2019/nov/29/london-bridge-incident-police-city

OP posts:
BovaryX · 30/11/2019 08:31

Figures released by the Home Office show 29 people with homicide convictions went on to commit murder and six went on to commit manslaughter. Of those 29 murderers, 13 previously committed murder and 16 manslaughter

ploopsie
I hope this terrorist attack is the catalyst for a serious review of sentencing. The murdered girl’s family saw her killer on London Bridge during coverage of this event. That’s the first they knew about his release.

SarahTancredi · 30/11/2019 08:32

Exactly prosseco

He knew what he was doing. He could have dropped the knives put his hands up.and given himself up. He didnt. At that point hed have known full well he wasnt leaving alive.

The police officer may have pulled the trigger but it was suicide.

Passthecherrycoke · 30/11/2019 08:34

@HoldNose

Are you anti any self defence killing?

We allow state mandated killing in circumstances where an immediate threat to further life must be contained. We also allow killing in self defence. Are you saying you don’t believe in this right?

It would be interesting to know what you’d expect a woman in a domestically violent relationship being beaten to death by the attacker who has an opportunity to kill him should do instead

TreesRUs · 30/11/2019 08:37

So who were the three men who confronted him? Or is that not clear yet?

ploopsie · 30/11/2019 08:37

@BovaryX That figure just looks at convicted murderers so imagine what the number would look like including rapists, & people like this man.

That's awful, you'd think they authorities would at least inform the family.

NumbersStation · 30/11/2019 08:39

I this instance it is just as well some of us put ourselves forward to be police or military.

ploopsie · 30/11/2019 08:40

So who were the three men who confronted him? Or is that not clear yet?

I don't think it's completely clear. One man was a BTP officer. One man who tried to help a victim is a convicted murderer out on day release.

ProseccoSupernova · 30/11/2019 08:54

I thought my post hadn’t posted!! Anyway glad you get the gist!

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 08:56

I am discussing a horror as are you. Some think it's OK to take life, some don't, we can agree to disagree.

Passthecherrycoke · 30/11/2019 08:57

Of course we can disagree - I have no concern with clarifying that. I’m just interested in your very unusual point of view. Do you not want to discuss it further? It seems odd to post in the first place if you don’t want to

chomalungma · 30/11/2019 08:59

Some think it's OK to take life, some don't, we can agree to disagree

Would you rather be killed by someone or would you kill someone to stop yourself being killed?

Passthecherrycoke · 30/11/2019 09:01

To be fair I think there are likely to be at least 2 views: that you can kill someone in self defence, but the justice system should deal with you as they would any other killer (ie self defence is no defence)
Or b) you should never kill and be willing to lay your own life down and be killed rather than do so.

If someone was trying to attack my children with a knife I would do everything I could to kill them. I can’t imagine anyone who would step aside lest they become a killer. I don’t think they would be normal, actually.

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 09:02

I have never taken a life and I have no plans to take a life. It's that simple for me.

Others may have conditions in which they may take life, it's more complicated for them, and those who come into contact with them.

ineedaholidaynow · 30/11/2019 09:02

HoldNose what do you think the police should have done? They thought he had a bomb strapped to him and I think there are reports he was trying to get to his gun.

frostedviolets · 30/11/2019 09:03

I can't understand the mentality of holdnose at all.

I personally have some sympathy for all criminals, including the attacker here, for I am quite sure he was a man with complex issues and was vulnerable and someone, somewhere, took advantage and brainwashed him. Which is really sad.

HOWEVER

This man killed two people, injured others and as far as police were aware, appeared to be about a detonate an explosive device which would have killed countless more people.

How was there ever any other option of killing him?

There wasn't.

He had to die.

There was absolutely no way he could have been safely detained without risking the death of very many more innocent people and to call the officer involved a 'murderer', is just reprehensible.

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 09:04

To take a life and self defense are two separate things.

Passthecherrycoke · 30/11/2019 09:05

Not if you kill someone in self defence they’re not, they’re exactly the same.

And the police are mandated to kill people who are set to kill them/others in order to stop them. It is the same mandate that allows self defence

SarahTancredi · 30/11/2019 09:06

So if hed tried to stab the police officer it would have been different?

Wheres the personal responsibility this is no different to him hurling himself off a bridge. Except he didnt even have the guts to do it himself he hot someone else to do it for him.

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 09:07

Most people manage self defense without taking a life.

frostedviolets · 30/11/2019 09:09

Most people manage self defense without taking a life

What do you think the police should have done?

There was no way of safely detaining this man.

BovaryX · 30/11/2019 09:10

HoldnoseTwo of the people who ‘came into contact’ with the convicted terrorist yesterday are dead. Your attempt on this thread to equate the murderous actions of this fanatic with the cop who shot him are bankrupt. At least this time, there is absolutely no chance this terrorist will be out on license to commit more carnage after a derisory sentence.

chomalungma · 30/11/2019 09:10

Most people manage self defense without taking a life

Yes they do - but when push comes to shove, would you kill or be killed?

Would you lay down your life to prevent someone else being killed?

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 09:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Cantsleeppast3am · 30/11/2019 09:12

Sorry holdnose but not every life is worth keeping. Blame the justice system if you like, he should've been in prison.

chomalungma · 30/11/2019 09:14

You may plan to kill people, I don't

My last word to you - I hope you are never in a situation where your life or other people's lives are in danger and the only way to stop life being taken is to take a life.

It is not wrong to take a life to prevent a life being taken.