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Original poster

London Bridge incident **WARNING from MNHQ - graphic content**

455 replies

Beveren · 29/11/2019 14:27

Anyone there? Reports are sketchy at the moment. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2019/nov/29/london-bridge-incident-police-city

OP posts:
ploopsie · 30/11/2019 07:49

@HoldNose I think it's important to remember that the terrorist had a bomb (they couldn't know it was a hoax) on him & refused to stop moving. Of course he was shot dead.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 30/11/2019 07:49

It's not 'my' definition. It's pretty much the world's definition.

It's sort of why soldiers and those commanding them aren't locked up in prison.

It's sort of why people aren't automatically sent to prison for killing someone while defending their own lives or that of others.

No?

ploopsie · 30/11/2019 07:52

The answers I would like to know is why he was released? Time & time again violent men (not just terrorist related) are let out & murder again.

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 07:52

This reply has been deleted

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duvetstealer · 30/11/2019 07:56

@HoldNose
What would you have done in that situation then?

SarahTancredi · 30/11/2019 07:57

The police officer murdered with a gun

That guy killed himself.

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 07:59

I am not the type of person who would choose to be an armed response police officer or soldier, so I wouldn't ever put myself in the moral situation where I had the power to take a life.

BovaryX · 30/11/2019 08:01

The answers I would like to know is why he was released
That’s an excellent question. He was sentenced to 16 years in 2012. He was released in 2018. He was at a conference on ‘integrating’ ex convicts when he murdered two people. The judge said this about his release

In my judgement, these offenders would remain, even after a lengthy term of imprisonment, of such significant risk that the public could not be adequately protected

chomalungma · 30/11/2019 08:03

You can influence the morals of others on MN, you can't persuade me that it's OK to take a life

If someone poses a clear and present danger to you or to other people, then yes, it is ok.

Kill or be killed.

Sometimes people get killed trying to stop others being killed. They are heroes, putting themselves in danger.

HoldNose · 30/11/2019 08:04

Believe what you like, I will do the same, have a nice day.

chomalungma · 30/11/2019 08:05

I am not the type of person who would choose to be an armed response police officer or soldier, so I wouldn't ever put myself in the moral situation where I had the power to take a life

No one can ever know a situation they might face.

In my judgement, these offenders would remain, even after a lengthy term of imprisonment, of such significant risk that the public could not be adequately protected

It's unbelievable he was released. I do wonder how much funding the system has and how it's been affected by cuts.

ploopsie · 30/11/2019 08:06

you can't persuade me that it's OK to take a life.
So the police officers should have put down their guns & allowed themselves & other by standers to be in a bomb blast which would potentially have killed & maimed a number of them?

Driedlimes · 30/11/2019 08:06

@HoldNose
Please read the facts and understand that these are not trumped by your thoughts or emotions.

In the UK, as elsewhere, 'murder' has a specific legal definition & requires the killing to be 'unlawful'. So, killing in certain circumstances is lawful. An obvious example of 'lawful' killing is self defence. From recollection it can include defending others from death or GBH.

The law also reflects common sense...

Scotinthenorth · 30/11/2019 08:08

It s not a male violence problem. It’s a religion problem. I fucking despise ALL religions. The root of all evil and all for something that doesn’t even exist!

ploopsie · 30/11/2019 08:09

In my judgement, these offenders would remain, even after a lengthy term of imprisonment, of such significant risk that the public could not be adequately protected

It's depressing & it must be incredibly frustrating for the police.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 30/11/2019 08:10

I'm merely stating facts about the world. You are the one attempting to look past the facts in favour of your personal feelings and 'trying to influence the morals of people on MN' Because you are the one who brought 'determining the morals of people in the UK' into it the discussion did you not?

It's a fact that a distinction is made in the law between people randomly taking a person's life for their gratification and those being authorised by the government to kill (in often a very narrow set of circumstances), as well as people who kill in defence of their own lives.

The former is Murder. The latter is not. That's just fact. It's a code widely accepted and adopted around the world, so no need to 'influence other people's opinions' by stating it.

You clearly feel differently and that's your right.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 30/11/2019 08:10

Why was this guy released? I’m no criminologist or psychologist but it’s bloody obvious they will do it again.

BovaryX · 30/11/2019 08:14

Choma,
I hope there’s an exhaustive investigation into why he was released. The leniency of prison sentences has been highlighted by this terrorist attack because it was at a conference to help integrate ex prisoners. The family of the murdered girl were also unaware her killer was released. Time for a serious rethink

FlamingoAndJohn · 30/11/2019 08:14

Where are people getting the news that the man who tackled him was convicted of murder?

The same breed that stood up to Hitler and his bombs?

You can piss of with glorifying WWII.

PenelopeFlintstone · 30/11/2019 08:15

He was sentenced to 16 years in 2012. He was released in 2018. FFS Angry
As for caring about the terrorist being shot dead, absolutely the right thing to do to and I care about it about 5%. Sad that the whole thing happened of course, but if that’s what you want to get into you must understand the risk of dying is high.

JellyfishAndShells · 30/11/2019 08:17

I am not the type of person who would choose to be an armed response police officer or soldier, so I wouldn't ever put myself in the moral situation where I had the power to take a life

The unthinking, cowardly smugness of your entire attItude summed up. I would not choose to do that job either, but that is because I recognise I am not brave enough, or have the mental fortitude to put myself in harms way in order to protect others. I’m not dressing it up as moral superiority, though.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 30/11/2019 08:18

Is not dying more glorious to those of that mindset in any case? Surviving is not an end goal.

(I admit to some ignorance about it)

ploopsie · 30/11/2019 08:24

I hope there’s an exhaustive investigation into why he was released

And I hope it's not just lip service. I found this statistic on the BBC website, can't find anything more up to date.

Over 30 killers killed again after being freed from prison between 2000/1 and 2010/11, statistics show.
Figures released by the Home Office show 29 people with homicide convictions went on to commit murder and six went on to commit manslaughter.
Of those 29 murderers, 13 previously committed murder and 16 manslaughter.

ploopsie · 30/11/2019 08:25

The family of the murdered girl were also unaware her killer was released. Time for a serious rethink

I can completely understand why they feel the way they do.

ProseccoSupernova · 30/11/2019 08:25

Holdnose is clearly just trying to rile people.

How you can compare a trained firearms officer shooting someone who had just stabbed at least two petiole, was resisting arrest and had what was deliberately made to look like a bomb strapped to him in one of the busiest pa