How can I get a job to fit round DH?

[TiceCream]

I’m sick of being a SAHM. We manage on DH’s middle management salary but I’m intelligent and I want to achieve something with my life. Plus I don’t like relying on DH and not having my own money. If we divorced or he died I’d be screwed.

DH is out at work 8am-7pm Mon-Fri. He has occasional overnight business trips that last 1-3 nights. He goes out to a music group one night a week as a hobby (not always the same night) and he also goes approx 20 weekend days out of the year for between 4 and 8 hours (sometimes Sat and sometimes Sun, it’s unpredictable).

DS is currently two and is with me pretty much all the time (except when I go out to my own hobby one night a week). We have no family or friends childcare available. I can’t see any time where I could rely on DH to definitely be available for childcare while I work, so I’d have to arrange paid childcare. The problem is in that scenario I’d have to earn enough to make it worthwhile. While we scrape by on DH’s salary there isn’t any left over so we couldn’t afford for me to work and make a loss.

I just feel trapped. If I had a good career in place before becoming a mum then I could go back to it and make a profit from day 1. But I don’t see how I can start from the bottom now when the salary won’t cover the cost of working? DH has suggested starting a business as that would be flexible, but I wouldn’t make any profit in the beginning so how could I pay for childcare?

He’s whinging “Nobody else is asking to leave early or work flexibly, it’ll put me at a disadvantage”. “Nobody else has to text their partner in meetings”. “Nobody else is being told they can’t do their hobby, their partner is just looking after the kids”. The implication being, I’m being unreasonable and other people’s partners are enabling their lives so why can’t I, it’s not fair.

DH works in an enormously macho, male-dominated industry where virtually everyone at directorial level is male and has a SAH wife who does all childcare. I've said this before on here, but I suspect at times he's done more for feminism and family-friendly work practices than I have in my life simply by getting up at an overrunning board meeting from time to time and saying it needs to end as he has to go and pick up his son from childcare.

He does this both because he's a reasonable human being and a fully-involved parent and fellow-participant in the domestic gruntwork, but also because he knows that as regards my teaching timetable in termtime, I'm not flexible -- I can't reschedule a lecture for 100 finalists at the last minute unless it's a major emergency.

In other ways, my work can be unusually flexible, and we both accommodate the other when we can. He was a SAHP during a period of gardening leave between jobs, and that was very luxurious for me, to not have to clockwatch at work in terms of childcare. But I was well aware it was a finite period.

@TiceCream, what you want is important. Tell your mother to butt out, and tell your husband that this situation he's enjoyed for so long was always temporary. You don't need to 'earn' the right to work. You've accommodated him for years. Now it's his turn.

Very best wishes. You can do this.

How do you feel about your DH in general, OP?

It sounds like he gets to call all the shots.
I'd be very wary of relying on someone who doesn't understand and support my need to use my brain and be valued outside of the house.

He's got a very, very, chauvinistic, old-skool mentality OP.

I second project management, change management, PMO, by the way. Once you get on the ladder it's well paid and often allows remote working.

Well to be fair to the DH it sounds as if he will be left with no leisure time at all which does sound a bit rubbish. He is being a bit crap if there is no way he can help at all by giving some of it up though, I agree.

Constantly clock watching all day at work because of childcare is horrible and I can see why he doesn’t want to do it if he doesn’t need to.

Perhaps both aim for part time work out of the house and share childcare?
We literally wouldn’t be able to pay the bills. The amount of money I’m likely to gain from part time work won’t make up for the amount DH would lose by dropping to part time. If they’d even let him do his job part time, which I doubt.

If you insist on staying with him
Actually I can’t afford to leave. I’d still be in the same situation with having to look after DC full time and being unable to work, except I wouldn’t have the benefit of his full salary coming in. One of the reasons I want to work is so I have a choice and I’m not trapped like I am now.

The OP's DH is dick, he's not relenting AT ALL and is prioritising not just his career but his hobby(!), over his wife
He insists that his job has no flexibility and any interference from childcare responsibilities would jeopardise it (and we rely on his salary). And he works hard so he insists he’s entitled to one night off per week and a day every other weekend, and that’s really not a lot compared to how often other men go out, and how is he supposed to cope with a high pressure job when he has ZERO down time because I’m selfishly suggesting working evenings and weekends when I don’t really need to. And then he points out that the professional jobs I’d like aren’t really evening and weekend work anyway - so am I going to deprive him of his tiny amount of leisure time just so I can stack shelves?

Go for a full time role, put the baby into full time nursery, and break up with your DH.

DH works in an enormously macho, male-dominated industry where virtually everyone at directorial level is male and has a SAH wife who does all childcare
Sounds like my DH. Except his attitude is “The other men don’t have to bother about childcare so why should I, their wives all look after the kids so why can’t you, it’ll embarrass me if I have to ask for flexibility because I don’t have a supportive wife who stays in the background like they do”. Etc.

To be fair much of it is his employer’s crap attitude. When we got married they wanted him to attend a meeting halfway up the country and drive back on the wedding day, arriving home an hour before the ceremony. When I went into labour and he had to leave unexpectedly his boss was furious and screaming that I was ruining their fucking deadline for this important project. He wasn’t allowed to take a summer holiday this year because they wanted a particular project finished. So I can see how he feels he has no flexibility.

Make a plan and do your research
Yes, I think I’m going to have to take a year to plan and possibly do some training in the evenings. When DS turns 3 he’ll get 15 free hours and if I’m successful in securing a job that’ll go up to 30 hours. Online tutoring could be a good start because I already have relevant experience. I’m not so sure I could get into project management as I don’t see many junior roles advertised and I’m unlikely to walk into a job with just an evening course under my belt.

What about coming up with a 2-5 year plan which involves both of you making concessions which include him looking towards a future company or role that is more flexible? I’m not sure what he thinks he’d be doing in the evenings tbf, my DH is like yours and once the kids are asleep (7-8pm) then all he has to do is eat. I do everything else (and work full time hours, half from home and half from office), home hours I can do evening and weekends. This is why I say you have to love what you choose to do because you probably will end up doing most stuff at home and working as well. But if you really want to work like I do then it’s something you put up with.

He’s just someone’s bitch then. What a way to live.

By the way, an important factor, are you planning to have anymore DC? Because if you are then you either need to get your teeth into something now to get some experience under your belt before a mat leave, or crack on with having more DC so that you can get back to work in eg 3 years time.

The problem is in that scenario I’d have to earn enough to make it worthwhile. While we scrape by on DH’s salary there isn’t any left over so we couldn’t afford for me to work and make a loss

I think you have to look at this longer term.

If you can secure a job with prospects, go for it, even though it may be slightly loss making.

If you are so much on the edge financially already, can you look at a loan to see you over the loss making hump before you get the 30 free hours?

You don't have a work problem, you have a DH problem. And frankly his career can't be all that high powered and well paid if you have no slack financially so he needs to get off his high horse. The sensible financial decision is for you to go back to work so that long term you (as a family) have a lot more coming in and a lot more security.

You Mum might not be supportive but is she close enough and fit enough to do the odd pick up from nursery if needed. Could your DH do a morning drop off at nursery (consistent timing and less disruptive than having to leave on time to do pick up).

I agree with the PP that a FT job is probably your best bet. Do you get CB? You'll be able to get help with childcare as well YouGov Childcare unless your DH earns over £100k.

He’s just someone’s bitch then. What a way to live.

Sounds like your DH needs a new job as well. Maybe the plan should be for you both to look for a new job and then after 6 months both of you request to reduce hours/WFH/whatever makes life easier.

I'm with a PP, the more men who stick their head above the parapet and say 'I need more flexibility because of my family commitments' the easier it is for women to do the same. Although, not entirely, men get far more flexibility about working PT than women do. They are 'wonderful fathers' and we are slackers (DH and my experience).

Your DH's job sounds absolutely shit - he should definitely look for another one.

However I suspect he's embellishing / exaggerating / lying...

Given his attitude to not giving up his hobby time to facilitate you returning to work, I'd bet large amounts that his work is not as inflexible as he says, he just doesn't want it to be flexible.

I've worked with men who've openly admitted to staying at work until after the children are in bed to avoid childcare / parenting, and fed their wives ongoing stories about how unavoidable it is that they work til 7pm. Actually they're surfing the internet, chatting, snacking etc. around doing a desultory bit of work - a few emails or similar - whi h they could easily have finished by 5pm if they'd been motivated to work efficiently to get home to their beloved family ... Not being unfaithful or anything, but also not swamped with urgent work.

Your DH doesn't have to be such an allegedly whipped wage slave - he could find a more flexible job if this one is really as tyrannical as he claims - he just wants to stay where he is because actually it suits him.

You don't know yet what you want to do, so be pragmatic. Utilise this time when school holidays aren't a factor and you're still with your husband so don't need to pay rent anywhere.

Don't waste your time and energy on an evening course which will wind your selfish husband up because he doesn't want to parent his child, you're right a random evening course won't get you anywhere given you're already postgraduate educated.

I think you need to find a daytime job say 3 days per week which will "only" cover childcare and a little bit left over for now, and get your DC settled into a nursery or childminder so you're employed. Practice being a single parent with the benefit of not paying rent for now and get a track record back at work for your CV.

Once your child qualifies for 30 hours up the nursery or childminder to full time and study the other two days.

Use the time before that to research what you actually want to do and what qualifications you need.

Don't "throw away" the qualifications you already have - think laterally and work out how they could be advantageous in some kind of tangentially related career. Then you may well not have to start right at the bottom.

I've changed career twice but never started right at the bottom because I've linked the qualifications and experience from the previous career to the new one and negotiated starting higher up pay and responsibility scales. You need to see your existing qualifications and experience as an advantage in going into a new career, and be creative and pragmatic about how you approach choosing and starting a "nearly new" career - you needn't start right at the bottom at 40 with a masters and work history.

Absolutely brilliant advice @agnesgrundy

I agree that 9 times out of 10, even in high profile jobs like banking, working past 8/9 every night is as a result of deliberate inefficiency or presenteeism or him prioritising coffee / drinks with the boss / colleagues over family life.

Sorry but you just need to pay for childcare. You also need to stop seeing it as the money in your account. You'll be paying into a pension & national insurance. The sooner you get into work the quicker you'll progress in a career. You'll also feel better in yourself being around colleagues and knowing you have your future in your own hands if needed. Not to be horrible but I dont earn a lot but I still managed to make a bit of money even after big childcare fees as I have 3 children. Now mine are all at school I use wrap around school care and my career is starting to get better.

Hi

Would about at a local nursery or preschool where you can take your DS with you?

This happens a lot in my village and the child gets a discounted place.

Your H has become a parent and been able to maintain his earnings, facilitated by you.

Time for him to do a fair share of parenting to enable you to build your personal earnings.

If he experiences any of the detriment he fears he can look for alternative work. Like a lot of working parents do.

You DO ‘need’ to work (or train) if, in the event of divorce, you personally want to have reasonable job prospects, earnings, pension et,

DH is taking the utter piss. It's not the 1950s.

He sounds unlikely to change though, and now you've been out of the workforce for a while he's got you exactly where he wants you. Dependent on him and existing purely to service his every whim. Good luck making any changes with that as your "partner".

agnesgrundy has given you really good advice.

This is true as well:-

Honestly most men aren’t that important. I am willing to bet I have a higher level, higher paid job than 90% of the men We’re talking about here and I manage. Because children mean changes. I don’t know how these men manage to make you believe they’re so helpless over their own career.

Recently I went on a night out and walked there and back with one of the mum’s from school who lives conveniently round the corner. She was saying that she has to do all the drop offs and pick ups because her husband can never guarantee what time he will finish work. Apparently sometimes he gets called into a meeting and can’t even text to say he will be late home as a result.

I work with her husband. To be exact I work part time. We work for a very flexible family friendly firm which is pushing hard for fathers to be more involved in family life. (6 months paid paternity leave!) Three days a week I do school pick up. I am never late for pick up. Because I state very clearly that I have to finish at 2:45pm. And everyone respects that. I am senior to her husband. It is quite hard to find a way of nicely saying “Either your husband is conning you or he seriously needs to grow a pair!”

I remember this thread about facilitated men, I really recommend reading it to get an inkling of what the future holds if nothing changes. It sounds like it'll be shit to have the fights now to get him to do anything near his fair share, but think about it - if you let it go on it'll become even more shit, and you'll get more and more stuck :(

And YY to the other posters pointing out that working mothers tie themselves in knots trying to make things work, including changing jobs to find flexible employers - for some reason it's not an option to be at the constant beck and call of their employers even though they work FT.

“am I going to deprive him of his tiny amount of leisure time just so I can stack shelves?”

Yes!

Better to stack shelves for minimum wage and work towards financial independence than to further facilitate him!

Even better to do everything you can to get a well paid job.

I would get proper childcare even if it eats into the income. When you got something decent you will have the free childcare hours and the fees will reduce a lot. Ours went from over £1000 to less than £400 per months.

But it was so worth it, a proper job with the prospect of developing instead of dead end ones to fit around DH’s work especially as he also has to do business trips.