Why are some Labour voters in denial about JCs endorsement of party wide anti-Semitism

[Rainbowhairdontcare]

I'm in a tactical vote group on FB. There was a fairly civilised discussion about JC when I said as a Jew I can't vote for him, nor any of the members of the small community where we live.

Then I got told off for buying the "fear mongering biased media".

I've read and heard what he's said. As a Jew I can clearly see it as anti-Semitism. It baffles me that people are still in denial about it.

Meanwhile there is a lot of superficial communication issues being accumulated as 'evidence'.

How many holocaust deniers do you hang around with? How many people do you praise who think that Jews bake the blood of Christian children into bread?

How many antisemitic books have you written a forward to, or terrorist graves have you laid a wreath on?

How many parties do you lead who have reached the EHRC threshold for investigation into allegations of antisemitism?

Y’know, just to get a baseline of what you think is normal behaviour.

Imgoingto - are you seriously suggesting that JC's mates are pacifists? Hamas and Hizbollah have been called many things, but never that.

He didn't only heap praise on Raed Salah (blood libel cleric) he also blamed the 'Zionist lobby' and the media, specifically naming the Jewish Chronicle, for his deportation from the UK. And this isn't a smear, or conjecture or a rumour, these are his own words, in an article he wrote. Waiting to hear now that he may not have realised the Jewish Chronicle was a Jewish paper, not everyone is elite enough to read newspaper you know

Having had a quick glance into what Raed Salah actually said he appears to have been speaking allegorically and in the context of ongoing war from both sides in the absolutely horrific and brutal disaster area that is the Middle East.

What Corbyn said was that he represents a different side of that conflict and all sides need to be heard to attempt to start peaceful resolutions. That needs to be done in neutral zones away from the conflict.

I can understand why people suffering on both sides would find the beginning of peaceful resolutions hard. God knows it must have been hard - it was hard - for the people of Northern Ireland. But some persisted in listening and trying to find ways and a delicate and very fragile peace was found. It would be interesting to hear Northern Irish viewpoints on this as they would probably have insights to share. Sadly they have their own problems again right now.

In the meantime this is a Middle Eastern political mess that I do not have the information to fully understand. I do see that Corbyn is trying to find ways forward, rather than for instance making money from all sides doing arms deals with the Saudis. Would that not be better for all there?

I'm going to continue judging British domestic policies separately from the Middle Eastern horrors until someone gives me actual proof that we are likely to start them here.

Having had a quick glance into what Raed Salah actually said he appears to have been speaking allegorically

He said Whoever wants a more thorough explanation, let him ask what used to happen to some children in Europe, whose blood was mixed in with the dough of the [Jewish] holy bread.

Are you going to now say you didn’t realise that this is a common antisemitic claim?

Whoops I didn’t realise the allegorical statement I was making also happens to be an antisemitic conspiracy theory? How unfortunate.

FFS.

Here, from Wikipedia

“ Blood libel or ritual murder libel (also blood accusation)[1][2] is an antisemitic canard[3][4][5] accusing Jews of murdering Christian children in order to use their blood as part of religious rituals.[1][2][6] Historically, these claims—alongside those of well poisoning and host desecration—have been a major theme of the persecution of Jews in Europe.[4]

Blood libels typically claim that Jews require human blood for the baking of matzos for Passover, although this element was allegedly absent in the earliest cases which claimed that then-contemporary Jews reenacted the crucifixion. The accusations often assert that the blood of the children of Christians is especially coveted, and, historically, blood libel claims have been made in order to account for the otherwise unexplained deaths of children. ”

Still want to defend it?

I will apologise for saying that I can understand why people on both sides of a conflict must find it hard to start talking. I can't. If someone murdered my child I'd probably want to pursue them to the ends of the earth. That's why it needs to begin somewhere outside of that region.

The Middle East is a theatre where such atrocities are commonplace. On both sides.

You’re not going to apologise for defending Raed Salah?

History in the middle east goes back a long long way. The hatred does indeed go back thousands of years. To be perfectly honest I'm not sure it can be stopped, and certainly never permanently.

But if people are willing to try should they not be helped?

I have not precisely defended Salah. I've said that there are atrocities on all sides over there, happening right now. Are you going to deny that?

You’re not going to apologise for defending Raed Salam’s repeating of the antisemitic blood libel claim by saying it was merely allegorical?

No self respecting person of Jewish heritage could possibly support the Labour Party under the current leadership.

And as that is the case, then neither can anybody else. I was planning to vote for Corbyn but will be voting Lib Dem now.

No self respecting person of Jewish heritage could possibly support the Labour Party under the current leadership.

What about those that are Jewish who are planning on voting for Labour this election, what do you say to them?

What about the Jewish members of the PLP what do you say to them?

I’d say exactly the same thing to Jews voting for Corbyn as I would say to non-Jews: you’re making a massive mistake, and in years to come, remember this conversation and don’t say I didn’t warn you.

There seem to be a few people on this thread who can’t see left-wing anti-semitism for what it is, so even leaving that issue aside, just take a look at some of the regimes across the world that Corbyn has praised: Chavez’s Venezuela, Castro’s Cuba, North Korea, Iran. His closest adviser Seumas Milne is an actual Stalinist - this is not a controversial point. We’re talking about people who were openly upset when the Berlin Wall fell.

I have seen an increase in “anti zionist” propaganda on facebook. Maps like this .

Dr Louise Raw
@LouiseRawAuthor
Confused as to when Corbyn became an anti-semite.

-Was it in 1977 when he helped organise the defence of Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi anti-Jewish march?

•In 1990 when he signed a Commons' motion condemning the rise of antisemitism?

In 2000 when Corbyn condemned David Irving for Holocaust denial?

In 2002 when he personally helped clean a Finsbury Park synagogue after an anti-semitic attack?

In 2004 when he condemned the French Government for trying to ban the Jewish Kippa in schools?

In 2006 when Corbyn condemned Bryan Ferry for anti-semitic remarks?

Same year when he led condemnations of an Iranan magazine running a Holocaust cartoon competition?

2008 when he praised the Jewish heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?

In 2009 when Corbyn condemned anti-semitism on social media?

Same year when he praised the heroism of Britsh Jews in the Holocaust?

2010 when he called for Yemeni Jews to be given refugee status here in the UK?

Maybe 2010 when Corbyn praised a former Israeli PM for working for a genuine 2-state solution?

2011 when he condemned John Galliano for anti-semitism?

2012 when he condemned the auctioning of Nazi memorabilia?
And opposed anti-semitic attacks during Euro 2012 in Poland?

2013 when Corbyn was one of very few MPs who spoke against anti-semitic press attacks on Ralph Miliband?

2014 when he praised the Holocaust Memorial Trust?

2015 when he helped plan a counter-fascist demo to a proposed march targeting Jewish residents in Golders Green?

2016 when he shed tears at the Cable Street commemoration?

2016, visiting Terezin Concentration Camp?

2017-19 when he's introduced new measures to fight Labour Party anti-semitism?

Seems to me he's been too busy rightly supporting Jewish people to have time for anti-semitism

Also comments - “zionism is a cancer, Israel has no moral right to exist”

You're not trying to attribute that comment to Corbyn are you SirVix?

www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2010/03/14/this-map-is-not-the-territories Interesting article about the map you posted above

When did Corbyn become anti-Semitic?

When he used racial slurs against Jewish people apparently not being able to understand English irony, inc ranting about it later on video. Maybe when he became mates with holocaust deniers, when he kept referring to people who called for the destruction of all Jews as his friends or as honourable people. When he called Jewish MPs things like 'the honourable member for Tel Aviv. Perhaps when he laughed and joked with a man who had just abused a Jewish MP right in front of him. Or when he did all the vile things noblegiraffe and others on this thread have brought up about Corbyn's specific personal behaviour.

That's when.

No ! Thanks for pointing that out so that I can clarify, I am absolutely NOT attributing that comment to Corbyn, there were unfortunately cross posts, it should have been beneath my post with the map, it was a comment on Facebook. I found it very disturbing.

Those of you criticising Labour who are you going to vote for? Which party do you feel isn't anti-semitic and will be the best party to lead the country?

Thanks SirVix

Yes, that comment is chilling isn't it?

Yes, chilling. I have jewish family members, I am horrified by the seam of anti semitism in the far left . This is being posted on Facebook by Corbyn supporters I should add. So the fact they feel comfortable expressing sentiments like this , shows that Labour are absolutely not addressing anti semitism in the party, and that this sort of sentiment is common currency.

Can I ask again, just in case it was missed, if you're not voting Labour because of anti-Semitism, which party are you voting for?

I'm in Scotland so we don't have the Labour/Tory monopoly but in England where the leading parties are obviously Labour or Tory, I'm interested which party you switch your support to?

Or are most of the posters criticising Labour, people who wouldn't have voted Labour in the past anyway?

Those of you criticising Labour who are you going to vote for?

Not completely sure as the manifestos are not out yet and I need to see who the local candidates are. But not Labour or Conservative. My vote won’t be about who is fit to lead the country, because realistically it will be one of the two main parties and neither of them are fit to lead. It’d be ‘which party would I want in Parliament reining in the extremes of whoever wins.

I don’t think my vote will make a difference in my majority Tory constituency, but I’m hoping that others will also abandon the two main parties and we end up with a minority government, the leaders stepping down and another election with better options.