Why are some Labour voters in denial about JCs endorsement of party wide anti-Semitism

[Rainbowhairdontcare]

I'm in a tactical vote group on FB. There was a fairly civilised discussion about JC when I said as a Jew I can't vote for him, nor any of the members of the small community where we live.

Then I got told off for buying the "fear mongering biased media".

I've read and heard what he's said. As a Jew I can clearly see it as anti-Semitism. It baffles me that people are still in denial about it.

Bloody hell Chris Williamson’s resignation letter is awful

And I saw a couple of Labour candidates had to stand down today due to antisemitism.

www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/07/debunking-myth-that-anti-zionism-is-antisemitic

This is something I am not expert in, but I can't agree that Chris Williamson's resignation letter is automatically racist. It's rejecting certain groups whom he views as committing crimes towards Palestinians. There's a huge jump between that and himself advocating gas chambers for certain ethnicities. You might like to check out the above report about the difference.

I don't know who runs the website you're referring to constantly joanneg36. It mentions some of Williamson's acts while head of Derby city council, which have nothing to do with Jews or anti-Jews or anything: they were to do with him being a Blairite at the time. I didn't and don't agree with Blair's domestic policies and had a couple of doorstep disagreements with Williamson about it at the time while he was campaigning: but again, a far cry from calling for gas chambers.

"the real reason for the venom against me was my advocacy for open selection, a primary system that would allow grassroots members to decide who should stand for Parliament before every election". Interesting. Like I said, there's so much gaming going on it's difficult to know where to stand. Lots of aggression going on as well.

It is possible to be anti-Semitic without being an actual Nazi you know? Please point me to where I have said that Corbyn or Williamson is in favour of sending Jews to their deaths?

You do realise that ‘anti-Zionism’ means opposition to the very existence of the state of Israel? Not just disapproval of the actions of its current government?

You do realise that ‘anti-Zionism’ means opposition to the very existence of the state of Israel?

Not in modern terminology.

And you do realise many Jews, including those in Israel, are opposed to Zionism?

‘Not in modern terminology’ - finally, something on which we entirely agree! Zionism has, I agree, changed its meaning in the last ten years on the left to be a straightforward synonym for ‘evil’, rather than a factual description of people who believe in the existence of the state of Israel.

And yes, I do realise not all Jews are Zionists but thanks for checking.

Zionist is also used by antisemites as a code word for Jew.

I can't agree that Chris Williamson's resignation letter is automatically racist.

You agree that it’s the bitter ramblings of a conspiracy theorist who is obsessed with Israel and the Jews though?

@ArseDarkly and @ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether - do you really not consider the following phrase from Williamson’s letter to be problematic?

‘the apartheid apologists apparently influencing Labour foreign and domestic policy.’

Seems this thread is bare with just the same posters chipping away so i'll leave you to it

I am painfully aware of what anti-semitism is but also highly attuned to what it isn't. It's tragic that the term has been co-opted as part of the Corbyn smear campaign by people who don't actually give a shit about Jews

On page 3 ArseDarkly - Corbyn is not a peaceful person!!! What a load of bollocks. He is an terrorist sympathiser and has been for decades. Not just one terrorist group but several all round the world.
Pure bollocks

I don't think he dislikes Jewish people at all. He dislikes the state of Israel and its violence towards Palestine. Not the same thing.

There is legitimate concern about Palestine and the Palestinians. "Apartheid apologists" is clearly a reference to those issues. Zionism is used in the Midlands to refer to a particular brand of ethnic separation ideas in Israel. As to how far they influence policies, I have no idea, but these issues are playing a major role in current politics. Yes Williamson is bitter, isn't everyone nowadays. He did work for Labour for 40 odd years.

Yes Williamson is bitter

And a conspiracy theorist obsessed with Israel and the Jews? You missed that bit.

There is a lot of concern about Palestine and Palestinian causes expressed in the whole Derby region.

It’s like you don’t want to answer!

Another rabbi has spoken out in panicked article.

Another one. This is a disgrace and people want to argue over semantics.
It should not be in public domain at all it, should be a non issue!!

This is a disgrace and people want to argue over semantics.

You dismiss years of debate in our community as 'semantics'? And then intend to vote for the racist Johnson? You're the disgrace.

From Rabbi Jonathan Romain's article (for the Daily Mail folks)

One final revelatory moment came this summer when the Equalities and Human Rights Commission launched an investigation into 'allegations of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party'.
Bearing in mind that the Commission is often perceived as a Left-leaning body, and that it sets a very high bar for evidence before it takes on a case, this is an astonishing indictment.

So it must also be 'an astonishing indictment' for the Tory party which is also being investigated by The Equality and Human Rights Commission for claims of Islamophobia.

I do not exaggerate when I say that, in my congregation, elderly worshippers are questioning why they bothered to fight Hitler, only for the country they were defending to one day be governed by people, some of whom, while definitely not Nazis, allow anti-Semitism to fester at the heart of their party.

My God, this man knows no shame, no low - for a Jew to invoke the name of Hitler and the Nazis as part of an election smear campaign. He should be in serious trouble over this

Tory party which is also being investigated by The Equality and Human Rights Commission for claims of Islamophobia.

Got a link? I googled and the only formal investigation I could find was the one into the Labour Party. That, and their only previous one of a political party, into the BNP.

Thing is, the Tories being racist is unsurprising. They’re not the anti-racist party.

Thing is, the Tories being racist is unsurprising. They’re not the anti-racist party

What on earth are you saying??

Did you find a link for the Tories being investigated by the EHRC?

The Tories are the nasty party. Is anyone really surprised if they or their supporters are caught saying something offensive?

Labour, on the other hand, are supposedly the anti-racist party. For them to have met the threshold for investigation by the EHRC means something has gone badly wrong in recent years.

I think the big mistake here is to think that people actually care about anti-semitism.

They don’t. Anyone who is voting Labour doesn’t really care about a anti-semitism. It’s acceptable for them, either as a slightly unfortunate by product of Jeremy Corbyn, or outright desirable as an outcome because Jews Rule The World And Need To Be Stopped.

Jewish people have always made this mistake. They believe that the goyim will abhor anti-semitism if only you could use the right words to make them see. They won’t. There are no right words. Once someone shows you their views on Jewish people, believe them.

@joanneg36

Let’s reconvene on 13 December when we can look at actual voting results in heavily Jewish areas

Jewish support for Labour has been on the decrease for a while. It didn't start in 2016.