Unplanned - Abortion Film **Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ sensitive content*

[Mum2386]

Hi,
Last night I watched a film called Unplanned, which is based on a true story of a lady working within an abortion clinic called ‘Planned Parenthood’. The film itself brought me to tears on many occasions and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable surrounding abortion. I had an unplanned pregnancy with my third child but knew abortion wasn’t an option for me. I am quite shocked by the amount of abortions that still take place within our society. Does anyone else feel this way? I know we all have different views but i just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on this very sensitive topic.

@MyNewBearTotoro
“sentient animals ”
Oh dear, anthropomorphizing are we?

Most people against abortion believe that humans are the only sentient beings on the planet. Therefore they believe that abortion is affecting that sentient being from being born...some religions call this the soul.
It’s not hard to understand how or why a person can believe that human life before birth is more important than any animal life at any stage.

That’s very interesting DoctorAllcome - all three of my pregnancies occurred whilst using the contraceptive pill. We were doubling up with condoms when I fell pregnant with DS as well. I was fortunate that I was in a position to continue all three of my unplanned pregnancies, although I found out I was pregnant with my twins before the extent of DS’s disabilities were clear. Had I known that he would have such complex needs and that our twins would be premature and one also severely disabled maybe I would have made a different decision as to whether to continue the pregnancy. If I were to become pregnant again (DP has had a vasectomy so hopefully I won’t) I don’t think I would have an option but to terminate.

I don't give a flying monkey's nuts of a woman has 10 abortions instead of 10 unwanted children. So fucking what? It's her uterus.

And of course these pro-lifers are mostly meateaters.Crazy hypocrisy. Only human life is worth anything. Oh sorry, human life that isn't the woman who doesn't want the baby (that's lower on the agenda). Hypocrites.

Contraception failed me twice I was using the pill properly the first time, And the coil more recently.

Thankfully for me I knew I wanted to continue with the pregnancy each time. But I could have easily been the woman posters slate, having 2 abortions not being responsible etc. Yet I was on contraception, both described as safe by a GP. After that and having DC it made me even more Pro Choice.

I am pro choice, always have been and always will be. I have also worked in a termination of pregnancy clinic previously.

I really don’t like the “cluster of cells” argument as abortion can be emotionally very difficult on the women involved, and reducing what they are going through as something insignificant is really unfair.

The definition of sentience is the ability to feel and perceive. It is human arrogance that denies the capacity of animals to have this.

I do find it hypocritical that those that say that fetuses have rights that are greater than those of the women carrying them, usually have no problem killing animals without question.

I’m not anthropomorphising animals. The dictionary definition of sentient is ‘able to feel and perceive things.’ It is separate from the ability to think or reason and a simple way of explaining consciousness. It means to be able to feel pleasure/ pain and to be able to have subjective perceptual experiences.

Are you saying that animals have no perception of what is happening or that they can’t feel anything? Are you suggesting an animal such as a cow/ pig is not able to perceive its experiences separately from another being? Is it really anthropomorphising an animal to suggest it has an awareness of what is happening around it??? A small minority of animals are not believed to be sentient (Eg: sponges, amoebas) but I’ve never seen anybody argue a cow is not sentient before. What is your reasoning behind this, because it is generally well accepted in science that animals are sentient and this is why animal rights laws exist. If they weren’t sentient we wouldn’t need animal welfare in the same way plant welfare in farming doesn’t exist - because nobody believes plants to be sentient.

I am certainly not suggesting that an animal has a soul (personally I don’t believe in a human soul either) but sentience is not about having a ‘soul’ - it simply means being able to feel and perceive suffering.

Sentience cannot be present without a certain level of brain development - science therefore suggests a foetus doesn’t even have the lowest boundary of sentience until at least 18-weeks of development but that more realistically sentience isn’t present until around 30 weeks. Therefore it’s likely that a human foetus is far less aware of what is happening or how it may feel as it is aborted than animals have as they are slaughtered. That’s what I mean by sentience.

Ah. I don’t blame you for believing this bbgxd. It is, after all, common knowledge that contraception usually fails because women are too stupid or airheaded to use it properly. But this common knowledge was based on faulty assumptions

I can't be asked to read all that. Most of us haven't had SIX unwanted pregnancies, that is insane. And yes, if you have SIX, you are in fact stupid or just have no respect for your body to put yourself through the mental and physical torment.

A man who treats a woman as his cum dumpster is pretty vile too, but nobody's defending the man so I don't feel the need to respond. I'm responding to people who think it's normal to have six unwanted pregnancies.

As I said, I don't care what you do. If you want six abortions go for it, maybe that resonates with some of you. It's irresponsible and as a woman you bare the brunt of an unwanted preg/kid. The man can walk away, it's much harder for a woman. You must go preg/termination/birth, not the man.

I'm honestly not hat bothered, Jesus. How can you disagree that's it's irresponsible? If it was my daughter acting like this we'd be having a chat about her life choices.

I don't give a flying monkey's nuts of a woman has 10 abortions instead of 10 unwanted children. So fucking what? It's her uterus.

Personally I don't care either what some random woman does with her fetus, it's still irresponsible though. Not in saying I'm judging as I've had an unwanted pregnancy too, but at some point you have to actually be proactive about your reproductive health.

Again, I don't care, it's them it affects, not me.

You're showing how small-minded you are, bb. I'd be more inclined to think there were very complex issues at play and/or severe abuse if a woman found herself requiring 6 abortions, my mind wouldn't go straight to 'acting like that' or being a 'cum dumpster'.

@Fanciedachange1 to me it is a cluster of cells in the early stages and if I had an unwanted pregnancy that’s how I would view it.
Legal, free to all abortion should be offered regardless of how an individual sees a developing foetus, with no judgement or approbation, as I’m sure the vast majority of healthcare workers in that field do, whatever their personal feelings on the matter. Apart from personal ethics or religious feelings that make assisting with abortion in any way untenable, in which case they should not be working within a hundred miles of any discipline involving female fertility.

For any woman who doesn’t share my brisk, scientific approach to describing a foetus then the care and understanding of healthcare professionals involved in the procedure is invaluable and I am greatful to everyone who can do that work while remaining supportive in whichever way the woman finds appropriate.

yes, I am seriously saying many people...most especially the most avid pro-life brigade that are also Christian fundamentalists...do not believe that animals are sentient. They believe only humans are sentient as Gods chosen ones “made in his image” and who have “eaten of the tree of knowledge”

In your referring to science saying a fetus gets to the lowest boundary of sentience at 18wks, I think that is a misuse by pro-lifers of the scientific evidence regarding foetuses feeling pain. The problem with that is that pain is a reflex, it is unconscious reactions, not conscious reactions. An ant or slug will react to pain in an identical manner. Feeling pain is not evidence of sentience.

The dictionary definition about feeling and perceiving assumes that the being has self awareness- which is much harder to prove.

Yes- the “cluster of cells” might look vaguely like a baby under a microscope. But it is still a cluster of cells.

‘Cum dumpster’. How....nice

I’d see a woman who had needed 6 abortions as possibly abused, having mental health or learning disabilities, in a cycle of ongoing oppression, not allowed to source contraception or lacking the capacity to use it reliably.
Others can see her as just feckless if they like. She’s still entitled to legal, safe abortions. Be good if the reasons for her putting herself through a fairly serious medical procedure repeatedly were addressed but women’s mental and sexual health aren’t really a priority in many areas. Nor are the reasons for lack of engagement with preventative health services funded adequately.

@bbgxd
“I can’t be asked to read all that....How can you disagree that's it's irresponsible?”

Well, if you’d bothered to spend thirty seconds just reading what I bonded you would have learned that 5% of women are IMMUNE TO CONTRACEPTION

Therefore, it has nothing to do with responsibility because it’s GENETIC

What about condoms? Six failures there too?

Ok I didn't really think that some people can be abused etc... genuinely I'm not trying to sound evil I got pregnant after a one night stand so I'm the last person to slut-shame.

But I still think it's irresponsible tbh. After my ONS I got into an abusive rel, I have experience here.

You're damaging your own physical/mentalhealth, risking bring a child into that situation, making yourself more vulnerable. as I said not denying you your choice. But you can't blame everything on you're relationship fgs. If someone allowed their child to be beaten up because they were in an abusive relationship how many of you would defend that?

The thing is there are many reasons why a woman might find herself pregnant again and again and not want to be.

Abuse,including being prevented from using contraception.

Struggling with addiction.

Poor mental health or learning disabilities.

Chaotic lives.

I doubt anyone goes through it for shits and giggles or because it's "easy".

@bbgxd
“What about condoms? Six failures there too? ”

If a woman knew she were immune to contraception, it would be reasonable to expect her to try condoms. But none of these women know. They are told the usual line of “silly you, you must have forgotten to take your pill. Try harder little woman” So they go off thinking, maybe I did mess up.

This study is only a few months old. Hardly anyone is aware of it or thinking about it. Women going to abortion clinics for repeat abortions are continuing to be told that they messed up. That if they try harder, the pill will work. So they do as they are told. Get pregnant again...and repeat.

I’ve posted this before on another thread this weekend, but I’ve been given totally duff contraception advice twice. Both times by HCPs.

I very easily could have got pregnant by following advice.

‘Cum dumpster’. How....nice

Yeah you're just acting deliberately obtuse. If a man is happily ejaculating inside you for his own pleasure and forcing you into an unwanted pregnancy I think it's fair to say he doesn't respect you, and that's exactly how he sees you. I have been treated like a cum dumpster. It's not liberating, it's embarrassing and thankfully I have worked on my self esteem recently.

They're better than unwanted children and broken people.

@DoctorAllcome

Well if that's the case, fair enough. Some women react to some methods of contraception in which case six may be unavoidable.

I didn't know that was a thing. My point still stands for anyone who just doesn't get on it. I do t know how many times I have to say this, I don't care how many you have. But this is just my opinion and I bet a lot of others too, but they're scared of being called 'vile'.

Bottom line if you can prevent it and choose not to, you're irresponsible, but I do t care either way.

@JacquesHammer
You’ve gotten bad advice from HCPs on contraception.

Me too.

How do you feel about the latest rhythm method but using an app for that approach? My reaction is 🙄

How do you feel about the latest rhythm method but using an app for that approach?

That if pregnancy is a disaster it isn’t sensible. That used properly (without an app) but by learning your own body mixed with using contraception/avoiding PIV at fertile times it can be useful.