Unplanned - Abortion Film **Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ sensitive content*

[Mum2386]

Hi,
Last night I watched a film called Unplanned, which is based on a true story of a lady working within an abortion clinic called ‘Planned Parenthood’. The film itself brought me to tears on many occasions and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable surrounding abortion. I had an unplanned pregnancy with my third child but knew abortion wasn’t an option for me. I am quite shocked by the amount of abortions that still take place within our society. Does anyone else feel this way? I know we all have different views but i just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on this very sensitive topic.

I care far more about the living breathing woman who doesn’t want to be pregnant than I do about a bundle of cells with no sentient thought, feelings or emotions to worry about.
No child should be born to a mother who didn’t want it, or was forced into it. What kind of a life is that for a child? No woman should be forced to become a mother / mother again / carry a pregnancy that they don’t want. I am more than my uterus and do not owe my body as a host if I choose not to.
I wish abortion were legal in NI. I really feel for women there and feel that their voices aren’t being heard.

Who said I am shaming people, Who even said that I think abortion should be banned? This was prompted by a film I watched and reading through articles online and I just wanted to get the general view of how people felt about abortion, as it’s not a conversation most will talk about. I am not shaming anyone, I gave my reasons why I couldn’t have an abortion after an unplanned pregnancy and just wanted to hear the view of others. Looking at statistics, the 92% is made up of women who were single and of age 21. Can we assume these were all contraceptive failures, or women that didn’t use contraceptives and got pregnant? If so, it shows that men and women still lack a responsibility for their own birth control.

But how is their ‘lack of responsibility’ (when for them dealing with a bad situation by having an abortion IS taking responsibility) your business? For you, abortion conflicts with your moral code and you couldn’t have one, which is absolutely your right, but how does that apply to anyone else?

‘Unplanned’ is a piece of anti choice propaganda that is not at all neutral on the issue of abortion. Also, your claim that the UK has the highest abortion rate is patently false, it doesn’t even crack the top ten.

Well, it doesn't matter as people don't owe you personally an explanation as to how they came about requiring a termination.

What you do need to do is make better film choices. Watch things you'll enjoy next time. You sat through a film which made you feel so uncomfortable that you're questioning other people over their 'morals'. The mind boggles, but then again your mind is so narrow that it couldn't even stretch to consider that most people don't have abortions for the shits and giggles and there are usually sad circumstances around them. So not actually that surprising at all.

Just to add, I don’t even know if I could have an abortion myself, if circumstances made having one the more sensible option then I probably would. Saying that though, I live somewhere where they are illegal so I don’t even get to have a choice. I wish I did even if I choose not to have one. Northern Ireland, part of the UK but also not really.. I don’t know how we have such a different law to the rest of the UK, it’s stupid.

I watched the trailer for the movie. All very pro life. It made me quite angry to watch.

I'm pro choice. Have an abortion if you want one. Don't if you don't. Other than that butt out.

Fwiw I had a termination many years agoat the age of 21. My circumstances weren't right to bring a child into my life. I don't regret it one jot. I know many women who have also had terminations for various reasons. No judgement from me.

I think people are being rough on you OP.
I respect your decision to keep an unplanned pregnancy. That’s what choice is- freedom to choose either way. I don’t understand why some are assuming that a choice one way means you think all women must choose that way too.

I’m just trying to point out that things are different here in the US where the film was made. We do not have free contraception. We do not have free abortions. So more women end up pregnant due to not affording contraception and more women end up with 2nd trimester abortions due to the time it takes to secure money for an abortion.

I think that is a problem in the sense that the US should provide free contraception and also free or at least much cheaper abortions. Most people in the US support unequivocally 1st trimester abortions, but they get a bit queasy at 2nd trimester, and most states have banned 3rd trimester. But it’s important to understand women are not waiting later by choice. It’s because they cannot pay for the abortion sooner.

I’m not a fan of cosmetic surgery. Dislike how it’s becoming more mainstream these days, wouldn’t ever consider it for myself.
Do I have to watch films about it? Nope.
Are the women who do have it entitled to do so? Absolutely.

As I said above for men and women to take better care of their contraceptive choices, maybe if they did and abortion wasn’t an option, then they would?

History has clearly shown this is not the case. More women will die basically. That’s what taking away choice will do. Look at Ireland ffs.

Planned Parenthood isn’t an abortion clinic, although it does perform abortions. It offers women’s health care and contraception to women who otherwise couldn’t afford it. It offers counseling services. It gives women choices and empowers them.

PP does a LOT of good.

What I never get is why people who are anti abortion aren't looking at ways to lower the numbers, stuff like more contraceptive advice services and support for people in abusive relationships.

I think perhaps the fact that you didn’t even consider abortion reflects the fact that you are in a situation where having a baby was any sort of possibility and therefore you won’t know how it feels for a lot of women choosing temination. I am pro choice and believe anyone should be entitled to an abortion (I do also think if people wish to avoid pregnancy they should take sensible steps to do this but of course this is never 100% effective). If you found yourself pregnant age 14, homeless, in an abusive relationship, with 4 children already who you struggled to feed and care for it’s likely you would ‘consider’ this option in a way you didn’t need to.

As discussed those emotive films are often used by pro-lifers to support their cause. But forcing women to have children they don’t want leads to huge amounts of unhappiness and often neglect. I say this as someone who’s first pregnancy was unplanned and who is 100% pro choice- I weighed up my options and now how the joy of a 2 year old DC. But I would hate to have not had that choice.

FFS I've worked in a Planned Parenthood. Most of what PP does is provide STI testing/treatment, well women checks, contraception access, sterilisation counseling/procedures and some even provide prenatal care. PP often provides the only health care that some women are able to access. Let's not forget that abortions are health care.

If you want to reduce the number of abortions increase access to birth control. But let's be honest, it isn't about reducing abortions is about controlling women.

@Mum2386

So you say you 'struggle with' the idea of termination because the embryo has a heartbeat?

I had a miscarriage last month. I was around 8 weeks pregnant but the embryo was not developing properly so it was more like a 5-6 week pregnancy.

That embryo had a heartbeat - we saw it on several scans. I passed the pregnancy into the toilet and didn't even notice. It was that small.

Are you suggesting that because it had had a heartbeat, I was flushing a dead baby down the loo?

I'd like you to give me a yes or no answer on whether or not I flushed my dead baby down the loo. Thanks.

Snuggy that will be because they don't actually give a flying stuff about women or their wellbeing. They just like to finger wag about morals.

@Rubicon80

First and foremost, I'm sorry

Second - bloody good question.

@Mum2386

Also, you said

This was prompted by a film I watched and reading through articles online and I just wanted to get the general view of how people felt about abortion, as it’s not a conversation most will talk about.

Here you go. This is a link to the British Social Attitudes Survey, latest research carried out in 2016. This is a very large-scale survey of the British public. It shows that a higher % of people than ever before approve of abortion. 93% in the case of danger to the mother's health, over 70% in most other cases. This is the highest rate of approval since the survey began.

You can download the full PDF of the chapter here:
www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-34/moral-issues.aspx

www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39147/bsa34_moral_issues_final.pdf

The key findings are that the British public are more accepting of abortion than ever before, and it keeps increasing.

The biggest gulf is between those with a high level of education/qualifications, and those who don't have any qualifications.

People without qualifications or education are far more likely than those with more education to be opposed to abortion (although even this group is majority in favour of abortion)

At the same time approval among those with qualifications has increased, resulting in a relatively large gap between the most and least educated; in 2016 54% of those with no formal qualifications say abortion should be allowed if a woman does not want a child, compared with 77% of people with a degree.

Hope that helps. For future reference, you're far better off, if you want to find out what people's attitudes in general are, to do some actual research, rather than creating a thread on a random forum, with no posting history, to ask a random, self-selected group of people what they 'reckon'.

@Mum2386 Oh and I'd still like you to give me the yes or no answer as to whether or not I flushed my dead baby down the loo. Thanks in advance

The myth of the feckless woman having sex when she wants with no care about pregnancy because ‘there’s always abortion’ is alive and well, I see.

I feel like that was me as a teen, I became complacent which is why I am on Mumsnet today. But of course, not everyone is like this. But some definitely are.

Abortion is not caused by people being too lax with contraception choices and "using abortion as a back up". Nobody wants to have an abortion or thinks it's no big deal - seriously. If you can actually find an example of anybody who thinks this way it is a tiny minority of people usually who have bigger problems. The vast vast majority of abortions are a last desperate resort. They are not a contraception method.

If you actually care about reducing unwanted pregnancy as you profess to do so, campaign for stronger and more enforced laws about rape and abuse, including post DV and child protection.

Campaign for awareness about emotional abuse, coercive control and sexual coercion, as well as other forms of male violence such as sex trafficking, pimping and so on.

Support single mothers and do not demonise them for "making bad choices". Increase single parent benefits and/or campaign for stronger enforcement of child support by non resident parents.

Support inclusion of, funding and support for disabled people including families with disabled children.

Support measures which help women with addiction and mental health problems.

Campaign for free access to and education about contraception for every woman and girl. Free and easy access to the morning after pill. Education about the menstrual cycle. Support research into long term reversible male contraception, and more effective forms of female contraception.

Campaign for funded childcare in this country, and rent controls, making children more affordable.

Understand also that in some cases abortion may be the humane choice if a pregnancy is terminated before a child is born with such severe disabilites that their entire short life will be pain. Or the safer choice if a mother's health is put at serious risk by pregnancy and/or childbirth. Understand that at times the continuation of a pregnancy is at direct odds with the life and/or long term health of the mother.

I don't actually see a problem with the view that abortion is immoral because it's choosing to end a life, although I don't agree - but be consistent. If that's your viewpoint then you ought to logically be supportive of measures which reduce the situation of unexpected pregnancy in the first place, and/or measures which support women expecting in difficult situations so that they feel more able to keep their baby. You also need to square it with the opposing moral dilemmas in my previous paragraph. If you are consistent with all of this then I respect your view.

You must be extremely careful with the "pro-life" resources you consume. The vast majority of pro-life propaganda (and this is what it is, because much of it is not fact based) comes from an extreme Christian viewpoint in America where the actual underlying idea is that ending a pregnancy is immoral because it absolves a woman of the crime of being sexual while not under a man's direct control, and this is appalling and despicable. Do examine your views, because it's all nice and easy to say "Well duh of course it's bad to kill babies" but there are some really harmful beliefs that underlie a lot of this stuff. It's complicated. If you can really follow it right down you'll usually get to the root of what you believe, but focusing on abortion as an act is a red herring - look at what happens to lead somebody to the desperate state of considering an abortion.