Unplanned - Abortion Film **Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ sensitive content*

[Mum2386]

Hi,
Last night I watched a film called Unplanned, which is based on a true story of a lady working within an abortion clinic called ‘Planned Parenthood’. The film itself brought me to tears on many occasions and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable surrounding abortion. I had an unplanned pregnancy with my third child but knew abortion wasn’t an option for me. I am quite shocked by the amount of abortions that still take place within our society. Does anyone else feel this way? I know we all have different views but i just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on this very sensitive topic.

@StockTakeFucks
“I don't know about USA, but the UK foster care system is crumbling. Too many children,not enough people or funds. They are struggling.”

Yes, I think the U.K. is struggling more than the US but you make some good points. I whole heartedly agree that adoption may not be the best choice to make depending on the country and the state of its adoption system & care system. That is why I firmly think women should be given accurate up to date information about the realities of adoption as it would relate to her, in her country, and with current state good or bad of the adoption & care system. So she can make a choice in possession of the facts.

There shouldn’t be pro-life myths of teddy bears and rainbows OR the pro-abortion scaremongering abuse/neglect misery & horror. [ here I have called these advocates pro-abortion because they are stooping to emotional coercion and are imho not truly pro-choice.]

Because we often see both of these scenarios painted far too often in debates about abortion, it’s the not talking about adoption realistically and objectively is what bugs me most about the adoption argument.

For late term abortions the foetus is euthanised before the abortion is performed. The foetus doesn't "go through" anything. It isn't aware of what is happening.

because realistically who’s going to birth a child than not keep it?
I don’t understand how this person can even imagine this does not happen. Lots of women choose adoption. Lots wanted the baby but after the baby is born are then unable to care for him/her and so give them away. It’s why here in the US they passed that Safe Haven law that any mother not coping can legally drop her baby off at a hospital, police or fire station and not be prosecuted for child abandonment. Some mothers give birth and just leave the hospital without their baby.

There shouldn’t be pro-life myths of teddy bears and rainbows OR the pro-abortion scaremongering abuse/neglect misery & horror.

The "pro abortion" side of the argument comes to counteract "adoption instead of abortion " argument. It's ok if you don't want the baby,just give it up for adoption type thing.

While adoption can and does work well in most countries and it's not all doom and gloom, would it still work as well if it replaced let's say just a third of the number of abortions every year?

It's not all abuse/neglect misery & horror now, ofc not(there's a certain balance) but can you guarantee it wouldn't be if abortions were banned ? Would you risk it?

It’s why here in the US they passed that Safe Haven law that any mother not coping can legally drop her baby off at a hospital, police or fire station and not be prosecuted for child abandonment.

That sounds like a really good law that promotes the well being of the mother and the baby.

Boobindoop Why would every single abortion be regrettable?

I think whatever your opinion on abortion saying that looking at aborted babies is not upsetting is a little bit chilling to be honest. Surely all abortions are regrettable even if you are pro choice. I find it very hard to believe that anybody who aborted after 6 or so weeks didn’t have any thought for what the foetus may go through? Even if they were one hundred per cent sure they needed the abortion. Maybe they blocked it out which is understandable.

I genuinely dont feel anything when I see pictures of dead foetuses - mostly they just look like clumps of tissue and don’t really resemble humans. A foetus isn’t a sentient being yet so I don’t think about what they ‘go through.’ The majority of people are happy to eat meat even though it means the slaughter of animals - I don’t think an abortion is even as regrettable than eating a burger because I don’t think a foetus is anywhere bears as sentient as a cow.l or a pig. Maybe I would see having an abortion in the first trimester is on a par with killing snails or squashing a wasp in terms of harm/ pain caused. I certainly don’t see it as something reprehensible or that a woman should be wracked with guilt or turmoil over.

I appreciate that some people will feel differently and that’s reasonable, just as a vegan and a carnivore will have different views on the ethics of meat, but just because your view is that you would feel guilty over an abortion please don’t try and project that onto other women or suggest that it’s not okay for a woman to have an abortion and feel fine about it.

@BertieBotts
For late term abortions the foetus is euthanised before the abortion is performed. The foetus doesn't "go through" anything. It isn't aware of what is happening.

Sorry but it’s a little more complex with new scientific knowledge adding a few what ifs to the mix. First, so we are all clear, late term abortions are those done after 20 weeks. If you are talking normal 1st trimester abortions, yes the fetus feels nothing and is not aware.

Second, euthanising IS the abortion because abortion is a type of euthanasia. So it cannot come “before” itself.

Third, currently, no fetal anesthesia is legally mandated in the performance of a late term abortion even though fetal anesthesia IS required for same age foetuses for in-utero surgery. So, at 20weeks it is widely accepted by the scientific community that a fetus can feel pain. Whether or not feeling pain= sentience is another ethical quandary altogether.

So, a late term abortion involves the injection of poison into the fetus. The injection is potassium chloride or digoxin into the heart or head of the fetus. Potassium chloride is known to be excruciatingly painful when injected into a human being.

So right now, because it is possible for the fetus to feel pain, and they get no anesthesia in a late term abortion. They will feel pain. Now, whether or not they are sentient and thus aware of the pain like you or I would be is unknown. Feeling pain can be observed like any reflex action but you don’t know if anyone is at home in the brain to speak.

This is worth researching further because imho opinion, it is better to do any euthanasia as humanely as possible. I can’t see adding anesthesia as a just in case thing to late term abortions as anything but a good thing. Similar to how we outlawed the abortion method so that dismembered the fetus in the womb.

I would have thought they would be aware of the pain, a newborn certainly is - having had a newborn have all kinds of blood tests and so on.

Yes that is concerning, and I didn't realise. I thought that it was a large dose of sedative/anaesthesia to stop the heart, like when an animal is put to sleep.

I don't think I could ever be anti abortion knowing what kinds of desperate situations women choose abortion in but I agree it must be as humane as possible.

@StockTakeFucks

It's not all abuse/neglect misery & horror now, ofc not(there's a certain balance) but can you guarantee it wouldn't be if abortions were banned ? Would you risk it?

Of course not, because I don’t think abortions should be banned. I’m fully pro choice to include the choice of adoption. And, as I said, it’s our responsibility to support ALL potential choices and if this means paying higher tax to have a better adoption system and care system in place then that is what we do.

I think it would be self-regulating as well. If the system is struggling and women are told that, fewer will choose adoption. If the system is doing totally awesome, more will choose adoption. You get an imbalance when women are choosing based not on facts but either the utopia or dystopia scenario fed to them by political extremists.

It might not look like it going by my previous posts, but I do support adoption as a choice,just as much as the other two options.

My arguments,scenarios and experiences have been only as an abortion banned/severely restricted situation . Maybe it wasn't clear or the message got distorted in the various arguments .

I'm not debating it as a viable third choice,there's not much to debate there. It's perfectly acceptable,legal and if it's what the woman wants then it's good enough for me.Hope this makes sense.

@BertieBotts
“I would have thought they would be aware of the pain,”

Well that we honestly do not know. The womb is a black box we are just starting to decode. No one knows when a human becomes self-aware or sentient. I don’t know if we will ever know. Don’t be too concerned though. Pain is a reflex, it’s not conscious behavior and so the fact that a fetus can feel pain is not evidence by itself that it is conscious/self aware. Too, only 1% of abortions fall into this grey area so whatever is found out will not affect abortion rights.

@StockTakeFucks
Sounds like we are in agreement on adoption then. :)

Aaarrgghhh

I doubt your kids will find support from you op. There is no point lying because given how you are on here there is no doubt you will make your opinion known in such a way that your daughter wouldn’t be able to come to you for support even if she did you would make her feel like crap. People like you are such liars.

@Aaarrgghhh Is this your pathetic attempt to try and get personal because you didn’t like my view. Does that mean because we don’t have the same opinion as others, we can’t support others. I don’t eat meat for ethical reasons but have friends who do, does that mean I mustn’t support them, or we can’t be friends. Nice try at trying to attack me as a person and what kind of person I am but sorry to say you’re absolutely wrong. Thank you for your judgement, maybe learn not to judge those next time, most of the time you can be very wrong about a person based on ones view

Ooh OP did someone hit a nerve. The poster is only expressing an opinion

InsertFunny - Not atall, if anything I laughed at their inaccurate judge of character You could maybe say i hit a nerve with them and yourself though!

I know the thread has moved on but can I nominate '92% of abortions are for single 21 year olds' for most made up statistic of 2019?

I work for an abortion provider and it abs infuriates me that people express their anti abortion views by villifying women and their partners. Put the energy spent traumatising women with posters and slogans into improving choices. A proportion of women who have terminations would love to keep the pregnancy but can't see a way too do so. If someone actually believed they were saving a child's life they'd be there with offers of support, researching options or whatever.

Especially young women.

@littletabby
Let’s reserve that award for Trump....he pumps a bogus statistic out on twitter at least daily!

So why not focus on educating men not to rape?
Nobody will ever know the true statistics for how many abortions are down to rape. The vast majority of rapists carry on facing zero consequences.
Also a lot of women down abort the foetus either. My son was at school with someone who's father was also his grandad. The child was , shall we say, severely damaged and so obviously was the mother.
Would anyone seriously deny a young woman/child an abortion in those circumstances?

“So why not focus on educating men not to rape?”

Because if anyone tries there is a NAMALT outcry.

@emilybrontescorsett
Would anyone seriously deny a young woman/child an abortion in those circumstances?

Sadly many people would, and have done.

“Would anyone seriously deny a young woman/child an abortion in those circumstances?“

There are people on this thread who would- never mind in the wider world.

You didn't hit a nerve with me OP You just talk complete rubbish.