Unplanned - Abortion Film **Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ sensitive content*

[Mum2386]

Hi,
Last night I watched a film called Unplanned, which is based on a true story of a lady working within an abortion clinic called ‘Planned Parenthood’. The film itself brought me to tears on many occasions and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable surrounding abortion. I had an unplanned pregnancy with my third child but knew abortion wasn’t an option for me. I am quite shocked by the amount of abortions that still take place within our society. Does anyone else feel this way? I know we all have different views but i just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on this very sensitive topic.

If abortion doesn’t sit comfortably with you then it’s not a huge stretch to assume you’d prefer people weren’t having them.

Given the context of the OPs other copious statements, this is true. And there are myriad ways in which this attitude manifests itself outside the law itself.

I think it is important that when pro-choice we are clear that women should be supported whichever way they choose.

Currently in the US (🇺🇸), the benefits system acts as a coercive force towards forced birth. If you are a poor pregnant women you can get free prenatal care and hospital childbirth, followed by free medical care and benefits for your child. But, if you are a poor pregnant woman and you want an abortion, tough cookies, you have to scrape together the money (thousands of dollars) to pay for it yourself.

So, in an effort to gain equal support for both outcomes...support to pay for and access abortions is needed just to match the current support for struggling mothers.

JacquesHammer ahh okay, sorry about the confusion lol. But yes I agree, I hate the term pro abortion, makes me sound like it’s something I would enforce onto women, I’m pro choice no matter what the choice is.

stop avoiding the question, do the images of aborted fetuses upset you?

I have an answer for this. No, they actually don’t. Maybe I’m desensitised because I’m fine about more taboo topics and can talk about them. There is one photo that I’d say does upset me but not for reasons like yourself, it was born alive basically and the back of the neck was cut with scissors and the baby died slowly. That’s awful but when done legally etc this can be avoided. There are always arseholes and generally scary people in every profession and the only photo of an abortion that upset me was the one that involved a dodgy doctor who didn’t care that the abortion failed or how close to term the baby was and just delivered and then killed the baby for money.

I live in the US in a Midwestern state with one Planned Parenthood abortion clinic which is constantly threatened with being closed down. My local PP does not perform abortions, and just does contraceptives and healthcare but a few months back someone set fire to it. We have a heartbeat law. Much of the state has to drive 2+ hours to receive an abortion.

Everything you say OP suggests you're buying into the anti-abortion propaganda. You might not be totally against it, but you're repeating the arguments that make choice a living hell for many women. Those arguments are designed to appeal to the masses. By posting this thread and saying it "doesn't sit comfortably with your views" you are reinforcing the judgement mentality.

You've raised the "abortion is not contraception" line too. Here in the US where Planned Parenthood operates, there are HUGE movements to restrict women's access to education. In some states, schools can only teach abstinence. Read about the Hobby Lobby ruling- religious employers have an ACA exemption allowing them to not cover female contraceptives.

What do you think that does to the unplanned pregnancy rate, OP? How do you think those women feel when find themselves pregnant?

You've had the good fortune not to need to make this choice, but the privilege of the choice being there. But that's only your life, your circumstances and your opinions.

Women in the UK have a choice, let's keep it that way.

Mum2386 I think it is you that needs to read properly. I haven’t said you think it should be illegal I’m saying this is what your opinion leads to.

Ban or severely restrict abortions and the only thing you manage to do is create a very lucrative market for illegal abortions.

Oh OP you should've quit yesterday when you only appeared faux innocent and spiteful. Your latest posts are increasingly stupid.

I liked that disneyfied 8 week foetus cartoon image someone posted upthread, as well. Not quite what they look like in real life.

@SpaceCadet4000
YES YES YES!
I have mentioned similar upthread being a fellow American.🇺🇸
It is very different here in the US. Contraception is not free. Many women cannot afford it. Abortions are also not free and many women end up with late term or no abortion because they cannot pay for it.
Access is horrendous with some states only having 1 clinic with long wait lists.

Having the supposed legal right to contraception or an abortion is meaningless if you cannot access one or pay for it.

I have respect for pro-life supporters who genuinely believe that life begins at the moment of conception and hold their views accordingly, provided they don’t pepper their explanations with what amounts to ‘the wages of sin is death’ ( in effect, what OP has said in her last few posts).
I have had rl conversation and debate with people who hold that view and it remained civil, with some common ground to be had even if we were never going to agree on the acceptability of abortion.
The ones you can’t ever have a civilised debate with are the ones who have a barely hidden agenda of wanting to oppress and control women. They are usually men and the female supporters who go along with out of fear or for the pats on the head. They are the people who shove photos of aborted foetuses in your face while refusing to acknowledge the equally abhorrent evidence of illegal abortion.

Lets just hope OP’s unplanned pregnancy or 2 other children never find themselves in a situation where abortion is the right option. Because it’ll be told how disgusting and irresponsible it is and she’d be obviously no support with the views she has. It’s because of people like herself why women sometimes end up terminating as they have no support as well.

I don't like the idea of terminations. I worked in a unit, handling photos taken of babies born in late miscarriages and stillbirths for mums to be able to collect when they felt able to and felt sad for all concerned. Seeing a photo of a far earlier embryo or fetus makes me feel sad and I do think 'poor little thing'.

However - I don't get hugely emotional over them and what I would actually like to see is a world where not only is contraception 100% reliable, rape and domestic abuse doesn't happen, medical treatment is free (I'm sure the cost of giving birth in the US is a huge factor for many in their decisions) and women are supported in a way, financially, practically and emotionally throughout their lives that they don't feel their only reasonable choice is to terminate a healthy pregnancy.

In the real world, none of these are possible, whether for biological or social/political reasons and I think it is kinder and sensible medically and practically to provide free terminations for any reason up to 18 weeks/ish and later ones for abnormalities, rape/domestic abuse/serious illness of the woman and not force women to continue pregnancies just to make me feel better.

Newbeartortoro

the actual issue is with the women who dare not to want to be mothers be especially women who dare to have an abortion without feeling huge waves of shame and regret and upset.

This 100%. It is the only thing to me which explains why women behave this way towards other women's choices ! I could never quite put my finger on it but you have put it perfectly !

If I'm entirely honest I do wish there was less need for abortions, because it can be an awful and traumatic experience and /or can affect a woman mentally . Reactions vary from relief,to guilt,to regret even some women changing their minds.

However the way to fix that is not restricting abortions or deciding which woman is worthy of one.

We need:

Better sexual education
Better support for women struggling with addiction or severe mental health issues.
Better support for women that are homeless and/or are in prostitution.
Better support for mothers.
Male contraceptives similar to the pill/implant.
A legal system that actually deals with and punishes rape,sexual assault,abuse.
Better support ,understanding and actually listening to women when they talk about gynae issues, want a sterilisation, report issues with birth control etc.

I could go on.

None of these would impact on the choices a woman has, if anything it would probably give her more options.

"the actual issue is with the women who dare not to want to be mothers be especially women who dare to have an abortion without feeling huge waves of shame and regret and upset."

Should have been in italics

Well said @StockTakeFucks.

"
That’s like saying someone who is mentally ill killing themselves and blaming their family for not helping them. If a woman chooses to have an illegal abortion knowing the risks and still goes ahead, how is it anyone else’s fault? I fail how to see how it would affect it me.
Call it disgusting if it makes you feel better. Do you also feel sorry for aborted fetuses? If not you’re disgusting too!"

I feel sorry for anyone desperate enough to feel that the risk of a painful death is worth it to not be pregnant anymore. It's quite clear that you value the lives (or births, people like you couldn't give a fuck after that) hypothetical babies more.

Let's not forget abortion is illegal in NI who are among the most restrictive laws in europe.

For those saying its legal and free in UK and let's keep it that way.

The move by Scotland and then afterwards by England (and Wales as we share the same legislation around this) to allow NI women to access free NHS abortion in those countries was a big step, very welcome. But this was only like last year or something. Prior to that ni women had to pay to travel and pay for private abortion. While running a risk, it's illegal after all.

84 looked after children were adopted in the year ending 31 March 2018

On 31st March 2018:
• 3,109 children in the care of local authorities

NI statistics. Where are those hordes of prospective adoptive parents that you sing lyrically about?

@StockTakeFucks

How many of those were newborns? I'm on your side ffs but can we actually analyse stats before just regurgitating them everywhere.

Does it matter? Surely, if a child’s life is so precious pro-lifers should be willing to adopt at any age? They can’t be picking and choosing on grounds of age, challenging behaviour or disability can they? That would make them massive hypocrites who don’t really give a shit about children after all

130 were under the age of 1. I can't find newborn stats yet, however In my opinion the number if newborns is irrelevant. They won't all be adopted...ever. Those newborns then grow,and they're too old and there's a new batch of babies and newborns.

Given the process of adoption and what it entails, not many will be adopted straight out of hospital either. By the time they're in the system they're not newborns anymore anyways.

Lets just hope OP’s unplanned pregnancy or 2 other children never find themselves in a situation where abortion is the right option. Because it’ll be told how disgusting and irresponsible it is and she’d be obviously no support with the views she has. It’s because of people like herself why women sometimes end up terminating as they have no support as well.

Ha nice try! I would support my children in whatever way they needed to be supported, as I said it’s my personal view.
Next question?

I haven't been able to watch the film; it looked as though it was on Youtube but they only have trailers and it isn't on Amazon Prime. So I'll have to wait.

Mum2386
WestBerlin - Because I was talking about rates of abortion, I mentioned contraception because that’s mainly the reason for abortion. Yes abortion does exist but there also needs to be something there in place to lower rates, better sex/contraception, more choices. It’s like offering anti-depressants to mentally ill people but not giving them support-alternatives to their choices.
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That is exactly what the mental health services in this country do - prescribe medication. There's nothing else on offer on the NHS.

It's relevant if we're talking about the prospects of babies rather than older children. I know in the US parents choose who they want, they sometimes even scout them via social media and I follow one such couple on Instagram.

However I know it's not always perfect, even when its family members stepping up to adopt, but I know in many places newborns are highly sought after