Unplanned - Abortion Film **Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ sensitive content*

[Mum2386]

Hi,
Last night I watched a film called Unplanned, which is based on a true story of a lady working within an abortion clinic called ‘Planned Parenthood’. The film itself brought me to tears on many occasions and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable surrounding abortion. I had an unplanned pregnancy with my third child but knew abortion wasn’t an option for me. I am quite shocked by the amount of abortions that still take place within our society. Does anyone else feel this way? I know we all have different views but i just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on this very sensitive topic.

Saucery - stop avoiding the question, do the images of aborted fetuses upset you?

WestBerlin - Because I was talking about rates of abortion, I mentioned contraception because that’s mainly the reason for abortion. Yes abortion does exist but there also needs to be something there in place to lower rates, better sex/contraception, more choices. It’s like offering anti-depressants to mentally ill people but not giving them support-alternatives to their choices.

“If a woman chooses to have an illegal abortion knowing the risks and still goes ahead, how is it anyone else’s fault?“
Blimey. I knew the forced birthers were a callous, women hating bunch, but this is utterly hideous.

Saucery - stop avoiding the question, do the images of aborted fetuses upset you?

What's it matter, you're the one it upsets so you started a thread. Nope, the images don't upset me at all, anymore than images of dead lambs and piglets for people to eat or guinea pigs on skewers (also for food).

Still 100% pro-choice. As early as possible, as late as necessary.

@DoctorAllcome
Oh dear. Apparently, expecting men to place the same burden of responsibility upon themselves with regard to contraception as women are expected to is in the Dr's opinion, suggests that I believe abortions should be banned. Quite simply, I don't.

I believe absolutely in a woman's right to choose and exercise ownership over her own body. What I take issue with is people placing the reasons for abortion solely at a woman's door whilst claiming it takes two to make a baby.

It would be nice to see the lecturing, the blaming, the analysis of reasons why birth control failed and the moral judgements of why abortion is wrong placed equally upon the 50% of the population who also have sex.

Why not analyse their birth control method, whether they have made a commitment to support subsequent children, whether they are around and whether they pay before deciding that once again, women are the problem.

but there also needs to be something there in place to lower rates, better sex/contraception, more choices.

So what are you going to do in order to have all these things available to other women?

Oh wait,it's not your problem is it? You just want "something " done by "someone".

No @Mum2386 they do not. They are a byproduct of an unwanted pregnancy, incapable of independent life outside of the biological host. I care about the woman who made the choice to terminate a pregnancy she could not continue with for whatever reason she had for making that choice.

Pre-empting your next delightful little missive.......I do care very much about the loss of a wanted pregnancy. My priority is always the life currently on this earth I.e. the mother and my feelings guided by her wishes, hopes and fears about a pregnancy.

Yes, it's always a vague 'something'. Like the vague 'they' or 'the government'.

“Saucery - stop avoiding the question, do the images of aborted fetuses upset you?”

Which images do you mean? the ones faked up by SPUC?

Alongside saying that if a person goes through an illegal abortion because they can’t get one legally it’s their own fault if it goes wrong are you also saying that if a person if a person commits suicide then rather than try and look at ways we can prevent people becoming so desperate that suicidal feels the only answer we should just say ‘well it’s their fault they chose that’

I take it you have never been in a position where something in your life felt so overwhelming and so desperate that you couldn’t see how you could possibly go on unless something changed? In that case you are very lucky, but honestly sometimes choice is just an illusion and people can feel stuck between two hopeless options. This is where illegal abortion leaves many women and surely you can recognise a woman who has to have a backstreet abortion must be in a hugely desperate place.

It’s always shocking to me that anybody could put the life of an unborn, unviable and underdeveloped foetus above the life of a human woman or that anybody would think an image of a grape-sized aborted foetus might be comparable to an image of an actual dead woman. I guess it just shows how little value the lives of women hold in the eyes of many when they’re unwilling to be mothers or at the very least incubators.

What are the 'more choices' when someone doesn't want to be pregnant anymore?

Mum2386 Even when I explained what the picture was you managed to get it spectacularly wrong. The woman in the picture I posted is dead on the floor during a time when abortions were illegal, she died because she had an illegal abortion, she felt such a strong need to not have this baby for whatever reason personal to herself, that she risked her life to have an abortion when they weren’t allowed legally. Your opinion would start deaths of women like this all over again in supposed civilised countries.

I knew what you described, again you need to read properly. Who said I’m trying to illegalise abortions? Who is saying I’m responsible for the women who chose to have an illegal abortion? We must all be responsible for every person who makes the wrong choice in this case?

Who is saying I’m responsible for the women who chose to have an illegal abortion?

You said you were shocked by the number of abortions within our society. You said there also needs to be something there in place to lower rates, better sex/contraception, more choices - what are you doing to help achieve that?

Or is that just something others should be doing to fit your agenda?

@timshelthechoice that’d be those mythical hoards of adoptive parents who will make sure the mother is well taken care of throughout her pregnancy, that that pregnancy does not affect her future life in any way whatsoever and who are happy to take the baby irrespective of background, health problems or long term disabilities. Those ‘more choices’

“Who said I’m trying to illegalise abortions?”

So what exactly are you trying to do?

@JacquesHammer

I did not know that. Thank you for telling me. I'll have a read now actually and see what those are.

She's just having a "discussion " . A theoretical and moral/ethics one only of course.

BertrandRussell - Read the thread and see what I’ve said. I’ve said many times that I am not trying to illegalise abortions but seems those are trying to ignore that and because I mentioned it doesn’t sit comfortable with me as my personal opinion people have got infuriated by that because it’s clear we can’t have a different view point. If we don’t agree with the majority it’s a problem it seems. I know what I mean and I’m not going to keep repeating myself or justifying my reasons why I feel this way.

• Anti abortion can only mean one thing - forced birth. How can it be any different?

Rather than being 'shocked' with the amount of abortions that occur, how about being shocked with the lack of contraception access and education that this implies and doing something to try and change it?*

Beautifully put!

So despite the fact that practically everyone is saying of course you can be opposed to abortion so long as you don’t impose your views on other people, you are still saying that you are not allowed to hold that view. Right.

@naggynora
“Oh dear. Apparently, expecting men to place the same burden of responsibility upon themselves with regard to contraception as women are expected to is in the Dr's opinion, suggests that I believe abortions should be banned. Quite simply, I don't.”

Sorry, but I did not understand that from your initial post that essentially said that if the OP really wanted to reduce abortion rates then “the solution” would be handing men some condoms. Since the OP clearly has expressed a desire to get abortions as close as possible to zero thereby negating the need for legal abortions, I mistakenly thought you thought increased condom use would achieve that end of the OPs. So I apologize for mis-understanding what you were getting at. To me, it implied that women could go without abortions if men wore condoms.

Thank you for clarifying your thoughts on this. I do agree with much of what you say in that it is true that women are always thought of as the problem either by not using contraception or not using it properly. There is little to no recognition of the fact that current methods of contraception DO fail despite proper use and that we will always need abortions as a backup method of reproductive control.

Again, sorry I misunderstood you.

No I am not going to do the above. It’s not my place to do this and I’m not responsible for societies choices. Maybe you would like to do more for those women who suffer trauma and regret after abortion, maybe you can help open counselling centres and help women who suffer mentally with the decision which they made because there wasn’t any other choice?

That’s like saying we have to be responsible for everyone’s choices. You clearly have a lot of time to do that but clearly you’re not doing enough because there are many women out there without support. If you support women through their choices does that mean you support the ones who choose to continue their pregnancies and are ‘forced’ to give birth.
I don’t support knife crime either, does that mean I should be out patrolling the streets and if I’m not does that also mean I support it? Didn’t think so!

OP doesn't actually care about anything besides "the number of abortion is too damn high" and "people should take responsibility " and "someone should do something ".

The worst type of hypocrite .

Tbh I can respect pro lifers that walk the walk and offer support to women in various forms. I don't agree with them,I hate that there's a need for that support but I respect them.

I'm of the opinion that if it hasn't been born yet, a woman can abort it. Unequivocally. The woman who owns the body owns the right. Full stop.

And of course anti-abortion people can hold that view. More power to you. I don't give a damn as long as you don't stop any woman/girl from exercising her moral and ethical right to bodily autonomy. And no one else here has said otherwise. We don't care!

If abortion doesn’t sit comfortably with you then it’s not a huge stretch to assume you’d prefer people weren’t having them.

Can I ask what exactly it is about abortion that upsets you? Is it that you equate a foetus with life? Can you articulate at what point you think the conjoined egg and alert becomes a foetus worthy of life? Do you think frozen embryos used as part of fertility treatment are also worthy of life and is disposing of a frozen embryo the same as aborting one?

I wish I believed that most people with an anti-abortion stance genuinely saw the life of the foetus as sacred but instead it mostly feels like when you start digging deeper the actual issue is with the women who dare not to want to be mothers be especially women who dare to have an abortion without feeling huge waves of shame and regret and upset.

I haven't RTFT but have a look at "In her shoes" on Facebook. Real life stories of Irish women and the reasons they wanted/needed abortions.

Women are people too