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If you voted Leave, did you/do you want 'no deal'?

338 replies

KennDodd · 29/07/2019 15:43

No arguments or even debates about Brexit, not wanting to start a fight, just want to count the numbers in a very unscientific manner.
It seems any deal at all is quickly falling off the table, never mind the easiest deal in history.

If you voted Leave , do you want 'no deal'?

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 30/07/2019 14:31

Really. I'm sooooooo sooooooo sorry @Peanutbuttericecream

Peanutbuttericecream · 30/07/2019 14:31

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Iggly · 30/07/2019 15:11

The EU are being very patient imo.

We’ve come up with red lines.

We’ve failed to think about the NI issue until pointed out.

We’ve now got a PM effectively acting like a toddler saying he won’t meet with anyone in the EU until he gets his way.

So for anyone who’s blaming the EU, honestly, wake up and smell the coffee.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

hadthesnip2 · 30/07/2019 15:23

So @ bellinisurge, would you say that the UK can never, ever, leave the EU because of the Good Friday Agreement.

bellinisurge · 30/07/2019 15:28

@hadthesnip2 no. Quite the contrary. I've said on here until I am blue in the face - make No a special economic zone and put a border in the sea. We can Brexit on those terms. Tbe EU even suggested it.

janj2301 · 30/07/2019 15:29

I voted leave and would do again. I have no probs with no deal, i just want out.

bellinisurge · 30/07/2019 15:29

Make NI a special economic zone etc etc

scaryteacher · 30/07/2019 15:39

From the DT today by Andrew Lillico. Says it all. Haven't posted a link as it's Premium and behind the paywall.

It’s become commonplace in political debate and media discussions of no deal to assume and assert that during the EU referendum almost everyone assumed there’d be a “deal”. Earlier this week this claim was put to Dominic Raab in a Today Programme interview. Last night Newsnight had an entire debate based around this premise. But it simply isn’t true at all, and media commentators and politicians should not be allowed to claim, unchallenged, that it is.

What does “no deal” mean? It means there will be no “Withdrawal Agreement”, that is to say, no new treaty with the EU covering the rights of EU citizens, the financial settlement, the Irish border, and a range of other issues including “non-regression” of social, environmental and labour legislation and “geographical indications” (eg “Scotch” or “Parma Ham”). So, did everyone assume there’d be such a Withdrawal Agreement Treaty during the EU Referendum?

The answer’s pretty obviously no. Indeed, I’m not aware of a single interview by any prominent Leave campaigner predicting or promising that if we voted to leave the EU there’d be a Withdrawal Agreement treaty covering these or similar topics. I don’t know of a single Leave voter that assumed, at the time, that there’d be such a treaty and I think I can safely assert that not one of the 17.4 million people who voted to Leave the EU did so conditionally on the assumption that such a Withdrawal Agreement treaty would be made.

Before early 2018, virtually no-one in the UK had heard of the concept of a “Withdrawal Agreement” at all. I first encountered it in late 2017. When I saw the first draft of it, in February 2018, I immediately wrote a piece arguing that we should refuse to sign any such agreement and should walk away from the talks unless the EU dropped the whole idea. We should never have had any kind of “Withdrawal Agreement”. We do not need the EU’s permission and blessing to leave.

This notion, so beloved of Remainers, that Leave voters all assumed we’d never leave without such a “deal” only needs to be stated out loud to be seen as preposterous. “So what you’re saying is that everyone assumed we'd only leave the EU if we got the EU's permission and blessing for doing so, and that if the EU objected then we'd Remain? That that's what Leavers voted for?"

The truth is that no-one on the Leave side predicted or promised that we’d sign a Withdrawal Agreement, and that if you’d asked almost any Leaver about the idea during the EU referendum campaign we’d have said it was a bad idea.

Until 2018, the notion of a “deal” with the EU didn’t mean a Withdrawal Agreement. It meant a trade agreement. The Withdrawal Agreement, of course, does not include any sort of trade agreement — other than binding the UK into the EU’s customs union via the notorious “backstop”.

The idea of a trade agreement was debated during the referendum. And the idea that no trade agreement would be done pre-Brexit was very widely trailed and debated.

Some Leave campaigners said there’d be no trade deal done pre-Brexit. For example, that was the consistent position of Lord Lawson, one of the founders of Vote Leave and its Chairman for the early part of the campaign. The OECD, in its widely-publicised analysis of the impact of leaving the EU, predicted that no trade deal would be done until 2023.

The UK government included a “WTO” option as one of its three Brexit “scenarios”, whereby the UK still had no trade deal with the EU by 2030. David Cameron spelled out, in television interviews, that if no agreement was come to with the EU, we would leave on “WTO rules” at the end of the Article 50 period.

It simply is not true that no-one anticipated “no deal” during the referendum. Quite the reverse, no-one anticipated what we now call a “deal” — ie a Withdrawal Agreement — and if we had anticipated it we’d have opposed it. What was anticipated and debated was whether there would be a trade deal — and there was extensive discussion of the possibility that there wouldn’t.

Leaving with “no deal” simply means that we leave the EU in October with no transition period beyond the three and a half years we’ll have already had since 2016. There’s been ample time to prepare. Now it’s time to go.

bellinisurge · 30/07/2019 15:42

"There’s been ample time to prepare."
Surely preparing is just wicked scaremongering. 😂😂😂😂

Motheroffourdragons · 30/07/2019 15:56

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

scaryteacher · 30/07/2019 16:03

I'm moving back 10 days before Brexit Mother, just in the nick of time!

I think we have prepared more than has been admitted, but from what I've read, the Treasury blocked a lot of prep that could have been done. Now Gove has been tasked with making it happen, I hope that a lot more will be done.

On the EU member states side, I don't know if you went to any of the meetings held by the Brit Ambassador to Belgium, but everything will trolley along as usual til (iirc) the end of 2020, when it will be revisited as to residency, ID cards etc. The only thing we did (and now it seems didn't have to) was change our driving licences to Belgian ones, so we have to do a two step DVLA dance for licences and reimporting the cars when we come home. Deep joy.

hadthesnip2 · 30/07/2019 16:03

@bellinisurge. Does that not then split NI from the UK....?

bellinisurge · 30/07/2019 16:05

@hadthesnip2 , semi detached. Which is what the DUP do with civil rights.

hadthesnip2 · 30/07/2019 16:13

Well sorry @bellinisurge I would have a problem with that (as woukd I'm sure many MP's).

Unpalatable truth is that the terrorists won.

BlueSkiesLies · 30/07/2019 16:27

I voted Leave and would settle for No Deal rather than not leaving at all. I was never very hopeful that the EU would agree to a reasonable deal

The EU did agree to a reasonable deal. The UK parliament can't agree themselves on what they want!

bellinisurge · 30/07/2019 16:30

@hadthesnip2 and if we don't leave will there be civil unrest or is that not terrorism.

Firecarrier · 30/07/2019 16:31

This notion, so beloved of Remainers, that Leave voters all assumed we’d never leave without such a “deal” only needs to be stated out loud to be seen as preposterous. “So what you’re saying is that everyone assumed we'd only leave the EU if we got the EU's permission and blessing for doing so, and that if the EU objected then we'd Remain? That that's what Leavers voted for?"

Good point.

WarriorsAll · 30/07/2019 16:33

Unpalatable truth is that the terrorists won which terrorists?

Vesperia · 30/07/2019 16:36

yes, no deal is fine with me - just needs getting on with

llangennith · 30/07/2019 16:36

Voted Leave. Couldn't care less how we leave so long as we do.

hadthesnip2 · 30/07/2019 16:42

Probably the ones that started it @WarriorsAll, but there was bad on both sides during the 70's & 80's.

hadthesnip2 · 30/07/2019 16:43

With you there @ llangennith.

hadthesnip2 · 30/07/2019 16:45

@bellinisurge. Of course it's not. Civil unrest due to a democratic right not being upheld is not "terrorism"

hadthesnip2 · 30/07/2019 16:46

I doubt there would be any civil unrest anyway. Look what happened on March 29th. Nothing

MindyStClaire · 30/07/2019 16:50

Any change in the constitutional position of NI could be viewed as terrorists winning, of one stripe or another. Border in the sea would be the smallest upheaval to day to day life and thus has the best chance of success. But even that would need a strong Stormont assembly backing it to get the whole population on side.

Basically, Leaving in any way will be a big moment for NI. Maybe we should do our best to limit the impact there, so peace has some hope of continuing.