Senior “career” women - what did you do/how did you do it?

[2yearoldbattler]

Looking for experiences of both mothers who are in the thick of it and those whose babies are long grown up.

Am a very senior exec, currently on mat leave from a COO role in a very high growth, high profile business with my second baby. Have fun a number of mediums big (£500m+) businesses in the past as either CEO or divisional MD. Will be back to work in a couple of weeks. Also sit on 2 boards, one a charity non profit, the other a FTSE 100 coy.

My husband is also a career person (professional services) and we are having some discussions at the moment about how we make our lives work. Tbh the period in between me returning from mat leave with no 1 and leaving on mat leave with number 2 was not a success - we felt so stretched and it was primarily our relationship with each other that suffered.

So, what did you do and how did you do it? Both stayed full time and ground through it? One dropped to part time? How much help did you have? Would love to hear what worked and didn’t.

Have NCed so only have one post under this name, but am a longtime MNer - defo not a journalist. I just don’t have that many friends who are operating like I do (that sounds arrogant and wanky, but you know what I mean) to be able to have a wide pool of experiences.

And my children did board for the latter part of their schooling so i’m not anti boarding.

“Quick win: Board DC from age 8”

Maybe quick win- but potentially a slow loss.........

I won't add to the great advice here but I would add a solitary note of caution..
Many people - me included - thought that their problems would magically go away at secondary. It's the total opposite in my experience.
Yes the kids can get themselves to/from school but it's your last chance to give them your family's values and guidance. If that's the exact same as your nanny (if they will stay as most don't like minding older kids), then fair enough but think carefully. If the kids are alone for 2 hours a day, how do you know they're not on the internet the whole time, not depressed etc.?
We are making big changes to cope with this changed of dynamic in our house, with one taking out some time to work out how we cope.
On the other hand we only have a few more years with the kids at home under 18 so also want to make the most of it too.

I also count myself as a senior career woman, although then in public service so no fancy title!
One additional difficulty we face is that we live abroad, so we have no family safety net. We cope (more or less) by doing the following:

• live-in nanny who works in the morning and afternoon taking our kids to and from school and to activities.
• cleaner (obviously. I already fear the holidays she is planning)
• husband in charge of all admin. I used to do this, but he is much better at getting good deals from banks, insurance companies and builders.
• Husband in charge of laundry in the weekend, nanny during the week. I have finally come up with a fool-proof system of getting the laundry in the right basket so they just have to drag the basket to the machine(s)
• Working FT but since our 4th child arrived ´only´ from 8.30 to 17.15. I feel lucky that my boss doesn´t oppose to this as most colleagues work later (but also start later). I do try to make each minute count in the office.
• Stopped caring about his family. No longer buy cards and presents for his side.
• Groceries ordered online on Friday evening for the whole week. No in between shopping. I cook as I want the nanny to concentrate on the kids.
• I still do parents evening, PTA, local government as it takes place all after 20.30 and isn´t on every week.

I can see that it does get better to some extent when the kids are older: you can explain things to them and they stay up later so you can spend more time with them. The disadvantage: they stay up later so I hardly get any me-time in the evening as by 21.30 I´m knackered!
I am always happy if my kids like the nanny, I´m never worried about them liking her more. If they wake up at night it is me (or husband) comforting them.

Disadvantages:

• no more time for sports. I will try to do something over lunch time or after 21.00 but for the moment I am just too tired (youngest is 1 and still wakes up at night).
• no time for friends. I don´t think I have ´real´ friends any more as we live abroad and I just haven´t got the time. I do have great colleagues though and I don´t really miss them.
• hardly any me-time, no more time to read or relax in front of the telly. I do hope that this will come back at some moment.

Weekly boarding may be the answer in some cases but I’m not sure it fulfils emotional needs? Do they really have in depth chats there about how they are feeling when they are going through so many emotional changes

@Delatron I didn’t go at 13 but at 15 and tbh I spent more time talking to my mum and dad on the phone very night than I spent talking to them in a quality way when I lived at home. Being removed from day to day grind and having outside forces of care/guidance (and also a good group of peers) really helped our relationship and made me appreciate my parents so much more. I was at a very lovely school though which suited me immensely. The pastoral care was second to none.

I’m not sending my children to boarding school for my career and I can’t be alone in thinking that way!

I’d rather go with bertrands patricide suggestion

Both me and DH work full time. I am not as senior as you but career focused, multi million dollar responsibilities and big earning potential. DH is senior in his sector and works long hours on site.

I was told that my role (or any other) was t available part time when I returned to work, I took it on the chin and looked at child care options.

I would recommend a combination of nursery days and Nanny in your home. When I could finish early or work from home I got to see DD more.

I used a few nannies over 5 years, the last one before school was brilliant as she was very out doors and took my DC on great days out the year before school, I loved doing packed lunches and hearing what they were planning to do or booking theme park tickets etc. I now have an after school Nanny and after school clubs. My child is a delight, loves us very much and is a fun child.

We have great weekend activities, sometimes theme parks or theatre, other times just parks or lido’s. We live in the South of England.

I am a bit worried about secondary school after reading how shit they can be but also my fear of private schooling is the length of holidays. I don’t want a bored child getting demotivated.

We have taken advantage of high earnings with fantastic holiday experiences. To begin with just bucket and spade, family resorts but now getting more adventurous.

I am also not entertaining the idea of boarding school. Not even weekly. My child’s bed is in our home.

Yes- I do think a structure which requires boarding from 8 maybe needs a rethink. And what about the holidays?

I wouldn't want my DC to board although both the DSs' and the DDs' schools have the option. I'd honestly miss them too much, but if they really wanted to then I'd consider it.

As an aside I think some of the comments around how much you see children and whether it's worth it are interesting.

These don't tend to be levelled at women who have to work and it highlights one of the issues for "career women" that you really are perceived to be putting work over your family in a way men rarely are.

I’d rather go with bertrands patricide suggestion
Sadly though my parents are divorced my DM has shown no signs at all of turning up on the doorstep to look after my DCs!

I think we should push for the term “career man” to be used at all times. Also “working father”.

Don’t get me started drama - i was recently castigated by a (drunk) acquaintance as apparently it’s only the use of “low paid” women that enables my selfish career aspirations. Leaving aside the fact that we pay all of the people who help support our household extremely well, I thought it was interesting that apparently this labour only supports my career and not my husband’s, because of course he can expect to have it all done by some sort of woman....

To be fair on DH he hasn’t pushed his career as far as he could as he values his family life, and is not impressed by some of the attitudes of the more senior male partners towards family life in his company.

It has been a conscious decision for both DH and I to look at how both our work impacts family life. He is much more career driven than me, so made sense for me to step down more, but we would have done it the other way round if I was the more driven one.

We only have a DS and when we discuss careers with him we would mention taking into account family life when choosing what he wants to do. One of DH’s relatives works in a profession where working part-time in the particular role they are in, is just not possible. She has found that very hard after having children. She also has to work away a lot. I wonder if she would have chosen a different path if she had her time again. But I would apply the same thinking if the relative was male.

DH is very involved with DS, certainly not a Downton Abbey Dad, and has said he will struggle with empty nest syndrome when DS leaves home!

it’s only the use of “low paid” women that enables my selfish career aspirations
Did you tell him that it's only the use of non-paid women (or low-paid if his wife isn't a SAHM and earns a lower salary with the expectation of fewer hours) that furthers HIS career?

2YearOldBattler

Indeed! I've had very similar conversations with colleagues dickhead men

Somehow it was unacceptable for me to pay my poor put upon nanny the guts of £50k to work defined hours in a job she apparently enjoyed, yet men expecting their wives to do absolutely everything whilst they spent evenings entertaining clients boozing with pals and moaning to colleagues that their wives don't pull their weight financially whilst buying la Perla for the secretary they were shagging is somehow to be lauded.

And yes yes to term career man

Outsource
Don’t waste time feeling guilty
If you do feel guilty, change your job

For me it was a very VERY bad decision to go part time, which I did when baby number three followed number two in quick succession.

It’s the usual story really, I ended up doing 95% of my job and getting paid for 0.6 of it. Worse than the money was the stalling of my career and the assumption that I was on the “ mummy track “.

Of course I also did everything at home, without any domestic support because after all I was only part time, why would I need a cleaner etc. I worked 5 days a week so never had a moment when I wasn’t at work or with three small children.

My ex carefully avoided all the stress of nursery pick up, supper and bathtime by “ working late “ ( aka as drinks or popping to the gym ) then arriving home to be dad of the year and spend 10 mins reading a bedtime story.

While I cleaned up, did washing and caught up on emails and report until late, he watched TV and complained I was never there for him. He felt free to spend his weekends on his hobbies as after all, he was bringing home the bacon while I was just part time. You will not be surprised that he’s an ex.

For anyone thinking of going PT, I’d suggest you plan things much more carefully and agree responsibilities with your partner and your work.

However it seems very hard to mitigate the effect on your career and I admire anyone who had managed this.

On the 'low paid women enabling your career' thing. I've talked with my cleaner and babysitter about this. My cleaner says that as a single mother, being a self employed cleaner meat she could pick and choose her work to suit herself - and set her own rates. She was then a prison officer for some time before she wanted to go back to a flexible life and now it means she takes long weekends, extended holidays, and runs her property portfolio. She has a much nicer home than me, has a soft top Mercedes and a brand new Ducati bike..
My babysitter is a former pro cyclist who has been a London journalist, raced on the pro windsurfing circuit, and currently has a portfolio of jobs as a watersports instructor among other things. She likes flexibility to pick and choose when she works to do the things she likes - like driving her Maserati through Italy.
Both would be very offended at any suggestion that they are exploited!

This is a great thread!

How much does a full time nanny cost?

Small - we pay ours the better part of £50k, plus around £7k to HMRC in employers NI. But she is an ex Norland nanny in london, so towards the top end of the market I’d say.

small we haven't had a nanny for a few years now but when I did her salary was £48k plus bonus. I also paid about £6-7k for NI and pension.

She was worth every penny.

I’m on £80k and my take home wouldn’t cover the amount people say a nanny costs if I put every single penny towards it. So with a decent salary I still simply can’t afford the throwing money at it people advise here and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

This gets trotted out a lot on MN but it's not your salary paying for childcare, it's you and your DH.

For me it was worth a few expensive years when the kids were young to maintain my career and therefore my future earning potential.

Frankly all childcare is obscenely expensive - with three DC having nannies wasn't that much more expensive than nursery etc would have been.