Senior “career” women - what did you do/how did you do it?

[2yearoldbattler]

Looking for experiences of both mothers who are in the thick of it and those whose babies are long grown up.

Am a very senior exec, currently on mat leave from a COO role in a very high growth, high profile business with my second baby. Have fun a number of mediums big (£500m+) businesses in the past as either CEO or divisional MD. Will be back to work in a couple of weeks. Also sit on 2 boards, one a charity non profit, the other a FTSE 100 coy.

My husband is also a career person (professional services) and we are having some discussions at the moment about how we make our lives work. Tbh the period in between me returning from mat leave with no 1 and leaving on mat leave with number 2 was not a success - we felt so stretched and it was primarily our relationship with each other that suffered.

So, what did you do and how did you do it? Both stayed full time and ground through it? One dropped to part time? How much help did you have? Would love to hear what worked and didn’t.

Have NCed so only have one post under this name, but am a longtime MNer - defo not a journalist. I just don’t have that many friends who are operating like I do (that sounds arrogant and wanky, but you know what I mean) to be able to have a wide pool of experiences.

The whole how much time do you give to your children question is an interesting one.

I might spend a lot of time at work compared to someone who works 9-5 but I earn enough to have a short commute and I haven't mopped a floor/ironed a shirt/cleaned a bathroom in years, so that's a lot of time that I "get back" that others don't.

I'm happy with the amount of time I spend with my DC and I'm pretty sure they're happy too. We discuss the issue regularly.

Midcenturylegs - I agree that the problems/pressures change as children grow up. I was lucky that none of mine had any serious health or school problems but I recognise the frustration of seeing them fail to work to their potential. The only advice I can offer is to talk to her, try and understand why she doesn’t appear to want to do well - and she probably doesn’t know herself - so this won’t necessarily be quick. And engage with the school to help. But be clear that only she can make the change so you need to work out how to encourage her to do that. But most importantly be clear that you love and value her however well she does at school - life is about far more than exam results. When you’re short of time it can be easy to forget to say the obvious and go straight for the nag.

I don’t think the advice is ‘don’t bother’.

Having kids does change everything and you can’t just carry on as before. There will be sacrifices (time with kids, social life, hobbies, down time, free weekends) only you know if that lifestyle (for both you and DH is worth it).

I agree with whoever said sometimes it’s not all about logistics. I found as the kids got older they need you more emotionally too. You can’t spreadsheet their emotional needs.

I am a C-suite person in a medium sized company. Before that I had a divisional leadership role in a FTSE 100. My husband has a fairly senior public sector job with reasonable but inflexible hours, also has a health problem. Two primary aged kids.

The bit between maternity leaves was the worst. You are still learning to be parents, trying to prove yourself at work and growing another human.

I went PT (3 days). I know lots of people with my kind of job (always keep up the network!) but no one doing PT apart from maybe compressed hours or a 9 day fortnight or something. But I really, desperately, achingly wanted to make it work and by and large I think I have. I do work more than .6 of my full time job but not FT hours (maybe .75) but that’s the price of PT + senior job. I wouldn’t swap. I moved jobs on 3 days - everyone said it would be impossible.

We have made it work by:

• Husband doing (nearly) his share
• Good childcare - I didn’t want a nanny but we had a great nursery
• Family support - we try not to use it regularly but save it for those hard to cover issues like sickness or neither of you can make it to the school play
• Cleaner
• Not much life for us but a bit or it’s too miserable
• Private school - very set up for dual working parents and feel they are getting something special in return for not having us there all the time plus most parents work so not eg endless after school play dates my kids can’t do
• Time - it gets easier fairly quickly - when they both reliably sleep, free nursery hours etc etc

Although I suffer from mum guilt like everyone I am the child of a working mum and I always knew we (siblings and me) were both my parents’ top priority and I was / am proud of them

It might not be possible to do everything you are currently doing in exactly the same way but you can definitely have and progress a great career and be a good mum - good luck you sound ace, I would like to be your friend

@midcenturylegs I have heard other people say it gets harder as they get to teenage years, too. More emotional problems, more times they REALLY need Mum or Dad not a teacher or sports coach.
But for your DD could you get a tutor to come twice a week, say, meaning they can come to either your house or your ex's house?

I had been working flat out for 16 years when I had dd. I still remember the feeling of the floor vanishing on my first day of maternity leave. I couldn’t wait to get back to work. But it gradually became clear to me that we could not live our lives the way we had before. However the reason I do not regret stepping off the career train I think is that I had had a very successful and fulfilling career before children. I don’t know how I would have felt if I had had children younger..

Bertrand I was pretty much the same. I don't feel that I had wasted my education or professional qualifications as I had worked for 20 years before stepping away for awhile after having DS.

And I agree with teenagers needing parents.

I know it is most common to go part-time after having DC then go back full-time once they are at school, but actually unless you have non-standard hours it is much easier to get childcare before they go to school.

And yes, I agree that the older they got the more parental input they needed.

Just goes to show how different things are for different people. I have two teens and two prep DCs and life is a million times easier now they're older!

Thank you all again - such great food for thought. Just a couple of responses (am on app so forgive me for pulling out posts at random):

bertrand I acknowledge that of course it is a big issue for lots of women (and men!) from all walks of life and income brackets. But am trying to just keep focused on people in my situation - selfish, perhaps, but it’s my thread. And of course we don’t “need” to work anymore in the sense of being able to quit tomorrow and be able to support ourselves and our children for the rest of our lives. But I — and my husband, because why should this be just about me staying home? — get a huge amount out of work that’s not just financial. It’s not unadulterated joy, thus this thread, but working feels good.

Anyway, onwards.

Am heartened by others saying the time in between mat leaves was crap for them too. Solidarity.

DropOffArtiste DH has an equally senior role. And re having a second, my view was that we were in the doldrums anyway and I was just distracted and hormonal - but that we both knew we wanted 2 kids so to just go for it and push through the baby stage as quickly as possible —much like our attitude to work I suppose.

mrswobble - thank you thank you. Your post made me smile and tear up a little bit (still breastfeeding and hormonal, clearly). SUCH good advice. Thank you!

cookie I like the idea of “away” and “home” days, we are doing a modified version of this but will try to think about how to adapt it. Thank you!

To all those I haven’t namechecked - thank you too, this has just been all so incredibly helpful. And well done to you all for keeping it all going, you’re all amazing.

Oh, and finally - while I can understand why you all jumped to that conclusion, my husband hates golf and doesn’t play

DH and I both work at very senior levels in the City. I took a 4-year career break after the birth of DC1 and returned to work when DC2 was 18 months old. I knew I didn’t want to try to manage my career whilst I had tiny babies. I was fortunate to be headhunted back into my old field (actually before I was thinking of returning).

As above posters, buying in support is essential to finding some sort of balance. We have 2 cleaners (twice a week), a gardener (once a week), and ironing lady (once a week) and an amazing Norland nanny (full time).

Our nanny is key to making the arrangement work though. She runs the logistics around the DCs’ lives, which means they are happy and nurtured and “nursery duties” and cooking for them takes care of the more tedious tasks haha.

Hope your return to work goes smoothly, OP!

Drama do you think your children would answer honestly if you asked about how much time you spend with them? It's bit like some questions you ask children of divorced parents, they will give the parent the answer they think that parent wants to hear.

PS @M0RVEN you are so so SO spot on with the downton abbey thing. I regularly say to my husband that he wishes he was parenting in the (19)30s - and he sort of agrees...

Place marking.

I’m not really career minded, haven’t got the confidence.

Ineedaholidaynow

Yes I do think the older two are able to be and are in fact honest. I had 6 years as a SAHM and DH 4 as a SAHD so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that I could change jobs or give up all together.

They understand that the lifestyle we have now is funded by my working and they appreciate that whilst I might not be at home at 5pm every night there are plenty of holidays, nights out, day trips that happen precisely because I'm not.

That said I really don't think I'm around an awful lot less than most working parents.

But I do disagree with others that say that it gets easier. I don't think it does, the challenges just differ. For example, my DD is at sec school, and if I am not at home she just watches telly. The same at her Dad's. Her grades have plummeted since going to sec school and not having the after-school/homework club enforcement

That’s a classic example of where weekly boarding would be beneficial! Child not alone and has adequate supervision (and would have dedicated prep time every evenings)

The threads seems relevant to lots of women with very time consuming jobs (which of course come with different pressures when there isn’t also a high income from that). The emotional side of it is essential to be self aware about irrespective of pay, and the posts on that are very interesting. I didn’t quite understand this bit though:

need to be positive and enthusiastic about granny watching the nativity play and you looking forward to hearing about it after. You never suggest that you are upset at missing it. All your dc will recognise is that they and their play have disappointed you - you alleviate your guilt (goes with maternal territory I think) at their expense which comprehensively breaks rule (1).

Why would they think they have disappointed you if you can’t attend something?
In lower paid time-consuming jobs it is relevant that there isn’t a choice not to go to work and miss the nativity. Maybe i am failing to grasp that there can be a lack of choice in a very high paid job too? Interesting when the narrative is often that pay and career progression will buy more choice and more power.

I work because I have this opportunity to earn a great deal. I'm in Sales. A single sales commission can be the equivalent of an annual salary to some folks. So hoping to retire early. Plus as a woman (minority) and ethnic (even more of a minority), it is nice to be able to do things like go to secondary schools and provide career advice, stem talks and hopefully be a source of inspiration. My company matched funded our PTA school funds and raised by 35% which for our village state primary bailed them out of financial trouble. It sounds a bit selfish. I have a daughter and a son and it's important for me that they see me working and dad do the domestics . And roles flipped too.

I forgot to mention that there's always options to take breaks. I took 2 years off when DC's were little. Dh took a few months off between jobs. However one thing that I'd always recommend is to keep your network and don't take too long a break and challenge yourself by taking a job slightly beyond your comfort zone.

Full-time, live in housekeeper. That was the norm in the country where we brought up our kids until they were teenagers. It isn’t the norm in the country where we live now but I still have someone who comes in every day and even though she doesn’t live with us, she does pretty much all the housework and other domestic stuff.

Hi OP, I am not in management but am a doctor and my OH is in the police, so we handle big stress but also bloody horrendous working hours and on calls all over the place.

Work put on a talk from a careers coach type a few weeks back and he was talking about something that has really made me think- the urgent / important paradox.

It's just helped me think about remembering to make time for things that are important even if they are not urgent, and recognise that the urgent things may not actually be important.

So, not a practical thing, but might help when weighing up how you will make life work for you.

I have done almost all of the above suggestions at one time or another.

I’m now part time and have kept the gardener and cleaner.

(Paid) Working days are still military and involve getting almost absolutely everything done between 8am and 6pm.

Other days are busy but there is also time to walk the dog, sit in the garden, listen to the radio, have lunch with my dh or meet my mum to shop. Then collect the children from school and be there for them.

It’s a cliché, but I really do only have this one life and who knows for how long? It won’t wait for me to have time to live it.

Weekly boarding may be the answer in some cases but I’m not sure it fulfils emotional needs? Do they really have in depth chats there about how they are feeling when they are going through so many emotional changes? Last night I spent an hour talking to DS about friendship groups, how sad he was feeling and how hard it is to find ‘your people’. DH’s Dad has a terrible time at boarding school and had a very strained relationship with his family.

The two families I know who cracked this best I think is one where there were two active young single grandmothers (not advocating patricide to achieve this!) who took turns to live in. And another that had a flexible weekly boarding arrangement. Both systems meant that everyone, including the children, could relax because there was complete certainty about arrangements.

Quick win: Board DC from age 8.

Most boarding schools in this country were set up as childcare for two-career upper-class couples (local lord and lady who had to run the estate) and later the two-career middle classes who travelled all over the globe as civil servants, missionaries, etc.

If you can face doing it, system remains identical but pastoral care is better these days. Schools do screen for parents who dump, by the way.

Boarding school solves the logistical problems but please don’t think it solves everything. And it really doesn’t suit every child. I enjoyed my career but I don’t think that would be the case if I felt my children had been negatively affected by it.