Senior “career” women - what did you do/how did you do it?

[2yearoldbattler]

Looking for experiences of both mothers who are in the thick of it and those whose babies are long grown up.

Am a very senior exec, currently on mat leave from a COO role in a very high growth, high profile business with my second baby. Have fun a number of mediums big (£500m+) businesses in the past as either CEO or divisional MD. Will be back to work in a couple of weeks. Also sit on 2 boards, one a charity non profit, the other a FTSE 100 coy.

My husband is also a career person (professional services) and we are having some discussions at the moment about how we make our lives work. Tbh the period in between me returning from mat leave with no 1 and leaving on mat leave with number 2 was not a success - we felt so stretched and it was primarily our relationship with each other that suffered.

So, what did you do and how did you do it? Both stayed full time and ground through it? One dropped to part time? How much help did you have? Would love to hear what worked and didn’t.

Have NCed so only have one post under this name, but am a longtime MNer - defo not a journalist. I just don’t have that many friends who are operating like I do (that sounds arrogant and wanky, but you know what I mean) to be able to have a wide pool of experiences.

Truly I’m just so grateful to have amazing loving childcare who the children adore. I’m not at all worried the dc will love them more, I’m more worried how much I will miss them when we move!

Not as high powered as others on the thread but I run a global team across all time zones at a mnc and it's not easy. Husband has just gone back after 5 years as sahd, and I'm not sure how we'll cope. I'm currently texting a cleaner to negotiate when she can come - ie when I can actually be here to give her the keys / show her the ropes!
One of my big big bears is finding time to buy clothes - I'm customer facing so need to look really well put together. Oh and I really resent 4 hours in a hair salon on a Saturday afternoon. All tips gratefully received!

*big bug bears!

OP, I had a similar role to yours (and highly visible in the industry) but all my plans changed after I had DC1. I left the corporate world, set up a consulting practice, used my network for flexible projects, wrote books and blogs etc. It was fantastic for my career. I could go back to an even better corporate role now that DCs have grown, but I find what I do now more meaningful, exciting and better for my health :)

This is probably not helping you but I just wanted to point out that taking time off is not necessarily bad for your corporate career path if you do the right things in mat leave.

Can I just interject with a little plea....obviously there are many of us that are middle management (and most likely even some junior management) that work hours that are comparable to senior management but without the salary to be able to afford housekeepers, gardeners, cleaners more than once a week, nannies or drivers.

I know I work hours that are similar to the senior leadership team I report to.

Please remember us and have discussions at a senior level about supporting working parents (and carers - so many now also have to do elderly care on top of children and FT work).

This is not about jealousy: it's fabulous that you have got to senior management and I wouldn't begrudge you the extra help but you're most likely the only voices at the top of your organisations that can genuinely understand how difficult it is to balance FT challenging roles, children, elderly care and everything that comes with running a family without the funds for the extra help.

I have a similar seniority role. We have found key things are :

1. A nanny to top up school and nursery hours, and who is flexible
2. A family diary/ planner that runs like a military operation. So, every day lists when PE kit has to go to school, dress up days (as soon as you know them) etc as well as the usual sports day etc
3. Ocado or similar booked weekly in standing slot for all basics, with the result that there is food in the house even if it is predictable and dull
4. Sucking up the reality that when the kids are asleep I will probably log into work again for a couple of hours
5. If possible a day a week (or just when possible) working from home really takes the pressure off and makes life feel manageable. However, I also found that optically it was better not to negotiate the right to it formally, but just to do it when possible and not too frequently that people raise eyebrows (depends on your environment)
6. Pay cleaner to do the ironing as well and change bed linen
7. Amazon prime for all kids birthday presents... find an easy present such as an Orchard toys game and bulk buy so you have a ready stock. Keep a stack of cards and gift wrap in the house at all times.

Tbh, there's no easy answer and you just push through but gradually it does get bit easier and you get more used to it.

If it is at all possible and kids are pre school age, having grandparents take one or both for the odd night can massively restore sanity. But obviously that isn't always possible or wanted.

Similar here, both professional services, I'm just about to go back to work from mat leave.

We have a nanny who does 12 hours four days a week plus cleaners. Husband and I have alternate Fridays off so we can spend more time with kids.

We alternate meeting the nanny/ being at home for her leaving so one is us gets in early and one of us works later each day, although we both try to be home for bedtime stories.

We don't really have leisure time ourselves as evenings are taken up with work/ domestic admin. Life would be a bit easier if we spent more money on someone to iron/housekeep a bit more and a gardener but our income after we have paid for nanny, plus school plus nursery isn't great !

We do have hello fresh three days a week and after that just soup/ toast/ eggs for dinner. Now and again we try and batch cook.

The two things which I am really trying to work on is:

(1)consistent organisation and efficiency, everything goes in a diary, huge focus on getting the most important things done, and impact, not in hours at desk

(2) reevaluating every two years at leat whether we have the balance right for our family and being open to all sorts of other life options (moving home, working abroad) and not mentally chaining myself to my current career trajectory even though I have been successful.

That said most of the time I question my own sanity !!!

The two things which I have been working on is (1)

I grew up with professional parents and a nanny. Never loved her more than my own mum! I have a nanny now also - we both work in a city with no family nearby and DH travels a lot. She is like an aunt to my DCs but not replacing us.

OP I view the early years as hard graft and hoping through responsible choices and savings we can wind down as they get into the tricky teen years.

Excellent childcare - at one point we had two nannies to cover the hours we needed. Back up childcare from my IL's was invaluable.

Insisting DH pulled his weight, including with managing the childcare arrangements, so that I wasn't the "default parent".

We eventually left London and I took a much less demanding role. I'm not convinced it is possible to have it all really. My firm talked the talk but part time just wasn't feasible.

There's a US website called Corporette, with a parenting site called Corporettemoms, that I found helpful. It's very US focused (lots of discussion of pumping/how to deal with ludicrously short mat leave policies etc) but it very much focuses on trying to combine parenting with a demanding career.

Elon...I use the time at the hairdresser in one of two ways depending on what the priority is.

If I'm stressed to my eyeballs = reading, listening to relaxing music, whatever might help me de-stress

If not = clearing emails on my iPhone, replying to things I haven't got around to doing, pulling together updated to do lists for home and work, etc.

I travel across Asia and international at least 30% of the time luckily DH although FT doesn't travel. We out source childcare and have an after school Nanny to manage kids activities and homework as well as a fortnightly cleaner (expensive in our country and we have a big house- works out more than £110 per clean). I also work in an organisation enables me to work from home that when I'm in my home town I more often than not rather than lose another hour of my day travelling to the office. I should really outsource more to be honest to free up my weekend and evenings when I'm actually at home so reading this thread with interest.

I think most people have already said it, but outsource as much as possible. We have a cleaner, a gardener, a nanny, someone who does the ironing, washes the cars (and even fills them up with petrol ) DC are 1 and 3 so we are very much still in the thick of it. It’s bloody hard but I do genuinely love my job (well, most of the time) and it gives us a nice life, so I feel confident it’s the right decision for us.

Nobody wants to say this but... when you're getting in help... don't get a young hot nanny!!! My helper was 4ft5 and had a wart and she was great. I never understand woman who bring a young attractive 20 something into their home and then get surprised when the hubby trades her in. You're juggling a lot, tired, overworked and carrying extra baby weight etc etc . I mean this very seriously... don't buy trouble!!!

Hospital consultant married to an IT specialist: I went PT so I have time to get stuff done around the house, and we have an absolutely rigid morning routine to get everyone to where they need to be on time. Normal nursery, no cleaner (but we live in London so have a small place, and low standards). Also helps that DH does generally chip in with laundry/dishes without being asked.

My boss, professor of medicine married to a high-flying surgeon (lots of private work), with five kids: live in nanny-housekeeper. The end. Kids are fed, chores are done, house maintenance organised, she walks in to a hot meal each night and can put her feet up (or get on with some work without being distracted by a huge tower of ironing).

I used to work in Canada (where salaries are higher) and that’s what most female doctors did there too.

The physicians on lower pay sponsored Filipino nannies’ visas, which worked out cheaper because they could deduct food and board and pay less than min wage (obviously substantially less ethical, and I judged, but that’s what they did).

I'm only mid level not senior so take my advice with a pinch of salt. But my observation would be that nobody ever seems to ask how career men manage, only women.

In my industry the reason is obvious: so many of the men have SAH partners, or at least partners who work part-time in a "job" rather than a "career".

But in the case of career women, 90% of the partners seem to work FT at a reasonably senior level too which much automatically make things so much harder. Yet it's almost taboo to admit that, at least where I work.

On mat leave it's so easy for the woman to take on the role of "family project manager" and never relinquish it. I've had to work hard to remove the expectation that I will organise DH's life as well as everyone else's. Until recently it was me keeping track of appointments, family birthdays and doing all the planning for social events. That has stopped now and if things go wrong I (mostly) don't feel guilty. I've worked hard not to be the default contact for nursery/school as well and to leave some of the responsibility for DC appointments to DH.

Other than that, outsourcing domestic stuff helps. I find hello fresh/gousto boxes a godsend. We got ironing sent out for a while too. And always get food delivered rather than trek to the supermarket. We've never had a cleaner/gardener as we find it less hassle just to do that stuff ourselves but I'm sure if we were more senior that would change. Careful though that as the women you don't become the default organiser of all the outsourcing and the one always booking the deliveries/collections.

I would agree with a PP that part time working doesn't seem to work well in senior roles. Funny how it's only women who seem to negotiate 4 day weeks at senior level; maybe if it were the men, attitudes would start to change. But in my experience, working 4 days means full time responsibilities for 80% pay. I've seen jobshares work better but they're not common in many industries. A hard 4pm/5pm finish now seems to be becoming much more common though for both senior men and senior women so maybe consider that (on the agreement that your DH will do the same or equivalent).

When our two youngest were in nursery I used to do an early start / finish and Dh did a late start / finish. For some reason this was seen by our employers and colleagues as my working part time while he worked full time but came in later.

Even though we spent the same amount of time in the office and I did more work at home after they kids were in bed. Whereas he did very little at home as he left the office at 7pm. I’m not sure if this is due to visibility or misogyny.

I wouldn’t recommend 4 days a week ( which I also did at another stage in my career) for the same reason ( unless your DH/ DP does the same).

Penny makes good points about not taking on all the wife work. It’s insidious and stressful.

I’m not earning big money, about £80k

Only on MN is 80k not big money, you are being ridiculous to say it's not.

Nobody wants to say this but... when you're getting in help... don't get a young hot nanny!!! My helper was 4ft5 and had a wart and she was great. I never understand woman who bring a young attractive 20 something into their home and then get surprised when the hubby trades her in. You're juggling a lot, tired, overworked and carrying extra baby weight etc etc . I mean this very seriously... don't buy trouble!!!

Wtf Thankfully I have a husband who doesn’t feel his need to stick his dick in our (young and pretty and kind and well educated) nanny. Mainly because I didn’t marry a complete twit.

@elonmusk I do 2-3 sessions a year with a John Lewis personal shopper. 2 hours and the whole lot (shoes, clothes and accessories) can be done for a season.

I'm not that senior but the difference between people like me and directors when you talk to them is they have a nanny, that quite simply is how they cope unless their partner picks up the slack (which is normally the case for men).

I don't think it's any more difficult than that.

Thankfully I have a husband who doesn’t feel his need to stick his dick in our (young and pretty and kind and well educated) nanny. Mainly because I didn’t marry a complete twit.

Most of the time the nanny wouldn't be too impressed by this either I imagine. If your H can't keep his dick in his pants he will shag someone else regardless of what the nanny looks like

Agree with wheresmymojo. Please dont forget about middle management.

I had s great job, STEM in a large organisation and male dominated with women slowly trickling in. International travel, managing globally etc and it worked because of 6.5 years worth of flexibility and WFH days. When DD got to school age I could pick here up from school, or juggle holiday care with DH who WFH full time.

This was even better when they moved my office 5 minutes from DD school to 50 mins at 6am or 1.5 hours at 8am away. It meant getting in for 0630 and WFH more. All great. Kept up with things in the evening etc. Great feedback etc.

Now we have a new band A director who is cancelling WFH. I now have to decide whether I drop to part time, yet working 5 days, so I can at least maintain some school pick ups and get DD to her activities, or stick DD in after school care, cancel her activities, and full time holiday clubs, or just forget my STEM career, and look for something compatable to family life.

I thought my company was forward thinking and enabled me as a female to make it work at a middle management level.

@crazycurry, sorry, I meant not big money compared to a lot of women on this thread but I’m aware that it’s a lot of money.

@Miljah, you really don’t get it at all. Nanny’s can be loved and kids feel safe/happy with them without it diluting the relationship with parents one jot. It’s on top of parents, not instead of parents. And what you said was offensive to every working parent who uses childcare. You assume high earning parents are never there and that is no more the case than low earning working parents often. I know a lot of high earners with family and it’s a mixed bag but I can’t think of a single family where the parents (at least one of them) aren’t with the kids as much as any family.

Why popcorn? I think you’re trying to turn this into a fight when it’s actually about support so perhaps you should step away @Miljah.

Personally I think 9-5 min wage is way more stressful than senior management.

Thank you all for the responses so far!

To the poster who said: just get a nanny. It’s a simple as that. It’s really not! We have a wonderful nanny who does 11hrs a day for us during the week. It doesn’t begin to solve all the issues, although it does remove lots of them.

Thanks to those who are cautioning against going part time. I was considering dropping a day or a half day per week, just to give me some breathing space (and to do things like go to the hairdresser - glad the bloody hairdresser is a pain point for others, mine thinks I’m crazy when I swan in with my laptop on a Friday night and start clearing down emails!). Good to be reminded that this is a bad idea!

I think we are doing pretty well with the outsourcing, we do Ocado, have a wonderful cleaner who comes twice a week and does ironing, bed linen changing etc. Nanny does all of the kids cooking and washing. We probs could use hellofresh & the like more.

Reflecting on it the two things that really didn’t work well post mat leave no 1 were (1) finding time for life admin (of which there just seems to be SO MUCH) - we were/are also in the middle of a total house renovation which didn’t help as always decisions about House Stuff). This always seems to get squeezed/not done eg I filed my tax return 4 months late as all I had to do was get all my papers together to send to accountant to do the bloody thing and I just couldn’t find a 3 hour block of quiet time at home to pull everything together. Seems ridiculous that it impinges so much on quality of life but it does (2) Having time for each other, friends and social activities - here I think our (and particularly my hisband’s) expectations are simply too high. Cultural life is really important to us and both of us sit on creative boards, so pre kids we were always out in the evenings at art, music etc and we’re constantly frustrated we can’t do as much of that now. Might just have to drop for the moment.

Hmmmm.

To those who pleaded for thought to be given to those more junior; am not going into specifics here as it will derail this thread but am very mindful of this. Keep on plugging away