Senior “career” women - what did you do/how did you do it?

[2yearoldbattler]

Looking for experiences of both mothers who are in the thick of it and those whose babies are long grown up.

Am a very senior exec, currently on mat leave from a COO role in a very high growth, high profile business with my second baby. Have fun a number of mediums big (£500m+) businesses in the past as either CEO or divisional MD. Will be back to work in a couple of weeks. Also sit on 2 boards, one a charity non profit, the other a FTSE 100 coy.

My husband is also a career person (professional services) and we are having some discussions at the moment about how we make our lives work. Tbh the period in between me returning from mat leave with no 1 and leaving on mat leave with number 2 was not a success - we felt so stretched and it was primarily our relationship with each other that suffered.

So, what did you do and how did you do it? Both stayed full time and ground through it? One dropped to part time? How much help did you have? Would love to hear what worked and didn’t.

Have NCed so only have one post under this name, but am a longtime MNer - defo not a journalist. I just don’t have that many friends who are operating like I do (that sounds arrogant and wanky, but you know what I mean) to be able to have a wide pool of experiences.

I did it before I had children.

This thread is an eye opener. I have never been in these kind of positions so don't know how you cope.

Do you enjoy it. Is it worth it?

Oh yeah also the high powered super-lady in the entirely male dominated industry (such that companies don't even HAVE ML policies!) said she only took "16 weeks" ML with both children. I noted she said "16 weeks" not "4 months" - I expect "weeks" sounds a lot less disruptive to the business!!

often the kids are begging to board and sleep over with their friends - they find it preferable as there isn't much quality time in the week if school finishes at 5.15, parents are commuting, etc. and the alternative to weekly boarding is going home with an au pair or nanny until parents get home

A lot of this sounds absolutely miserable for the DC. Yes, their basic needs of food, shelter etc. are met, but what about sufficient time with their parents? BOTH parents by the way - fathers don't get a free pass.

Excellent advice from HappyHedgehog247

Also DropOfffArtiste makes a really good point re diversity events, mentoring etc once you'rea role model

Honestly I don't think you can 'have it all' - something has to give. You jsut have to accept that and work out what bit oyu're prepared ot give.

IMO a good option is to have children weekly boarding from 13. I know that isn't a popular view on MN but weekly boarding is a god send if you both work late and have travel commitments. Weekdays all the 'stuff' is taken care of for your teenagers and at weekends you can have family time.

Also fab points from Ohladedah about 'women's work' at work.

Totally agree.

ohladedah I completely agree. I realised this about 7-8 years ago when I was at an Exec Board meeting of my last job and despite being the second most senior member of the management team (COO) found myself clearing up all the left behind Board papers after the meeting finished. Vowed never to do that again. It still takes people by surprise.

I wish I could do life admin at work. I don’t think I’ve had a break of more than 15mins - lunch or otherwise - for about 10 years at work. My day is scheduled from the moment I walk into the office (or often on my commute - calls in a taxi) to the moment I get back through the door. The price I pay for managing to get through most of what I need to do between 8am-6pm.

And I should point out that my husband does do a lot. We have a rigorous schedule with the kid(s) where we divide up the bedtimes and mornings etc and if we can’t do a slot our PAs arrange between them to actually swap the slot as if it was a meeting that needs to be rearranged. So I never become the “default parent” during the week, and if one of us travels for a week we have to do a hell of a lot more heavy lifting the next.

I'm not 'senior' in my field really, but I am an academic with quite a demanding (though flexible) post. What has really worked for us is sharing the load. We each work our home and 'away' days. My away days are actually away, my university is 3 hours from home, but dh's business is local, he just works longer days on his away days.

So one of us is always home to do the school runs and spend afternoons with dc, while the other is away working. We don't rely on afterschool care or childminder or anything. They are not particularly easy to find where we live anyway as we live in quite a rural second home belt where everyone is either older and not requiring childcare or mums are SAHMs. There aren't many families here with 2 working parents where one of them is not just working school hours/term time. We are quite an anomaly. I didn't want that anyway though. It's important that one of us is home with them every day, baring a few days a week when older one does an afterschool club.

I get 3 long days a week when I don't do any of the household stuff, no cooking, no wash, no school run. I'm out the door before dc are usually up and I get home as they are finishing dinner/getting in the bath (about 7-7:30pm). I get loads done on those days and it means I can be really present in my job. Dh has 2 long days, plus occasional weekends, when he focuses solely on work and I WFH and do the school runs, dinner, etc. It means, as much as is possible, we try not to be too overstretched with both family and work obligations. We each get our days to fully focus on work and then we get our slower days to be present as parents. We make sure our weekends are spent together (no one goes off to do some hobby all day every weekend) because we don't see much of each other all together during the week, so that is a priority.

Buying in help also helps. A cleaner (sadly, ours left to open a cafe, so couldn't clean for us anymore so we are struggling on that front), meal planning, online food shopping, etc.

This is a really interesting thread, as we are early in our careers (currently both in professional services although DH is likely leaving for a start up or similar) but already have DC1 18mo and DC2 on the way. Both are ambitious and have no intention of being SAHP.

How do people find good nannies, and housekeepers in particular? Agencies? At a loss as to how to approach it, since it's such an important role within the home.

I did a job like yours, across several DCs and maternity leaves.

What I saw around me - and you need to think about this - is I was the only senior woman in my large company whose DH had a job that didn’t include some degree of flex. Everyone else’s DH were freelancers or teachers or house husbands. I say this as you need to realise you are taking on something hard. Kids need time. Running a house takes time. Having a relationship takes time. There are only the same numbers of hours in the week.

So if you are going to do it you need to be mega organised. Delegate lots. And schedule life admin time. The book that saved my life was called something like Getting Things Done. There’s a whole science behind it now which you can ignore but it has the basic principle of being super organised and making time for what you need to do.

@CMOTDibbler is right and I think you know that OP.

The thing is that mothers mostly feel guilty for working such long hours and want to make it up to their kids at weekends. Because their mental default position is they should be doing 95% of parenting, they feel bad when they do 75%.

Many fathers think they live in Downton Abbey, where the children are brought down to the drawing room for 15 mins before dinner. They honestly believe they are doing ok when then are doing 5% of parenting and total hero when they do 20%.

I know it sounds harsh, but It’s not really about his feelings and him being completely fine with seeing the kids for 30-60mins. It’s his JOB and his RESPONSIBILITY to parent these children whether or not it’s convenient or he finds it interesting and rewarding.

I know that it might be different at work, if he’s senior or charming enough to dump all the grunt work on someone else. Or if no one ever says no to him.

If he wanted every weekend off to play golf he shouldn’t have had kids. And probably not got married.

If he wants more time to himself, why doesn’t he go part time? That would ease your life admin issues as well.

I think it’s important to remember that this is not just an issue for high fliers. Huge numbers of very low fliers work ludicrous hours too, without the consolation of money or recognition.

I'm sure the OP is conscious of that. Realistically the options that are open to a high earning family are far greater, and I think it's perfectly legitimate for the OP to want to discuss them.

Reminding the OP of the difficulties faced by those that earn less than her is about as helpful as saying "there are children starving in Africa you know" on a thread about what to cook for a dinner party.

Just saying.

I think it’s important for high fliers to remember that one of the choices they have is to step off the roundabout. Some of the lives detailed on here sound incredibly challenging for everyone involved. It’s easy to get locked in to a way of life. Just because that’s how it is doesn’t mean that’s how it has to be.

BertandRussell you speak sense.

Even with all the help that everyone discusses and the ‘do your Ocado shop on the train platform’ advice. That fast paced, must always be thinking about what needs to be done and juggling loads of balls wasn’t for me.

It sounds like you have the more senior role, so serious consideration must be that DH steps back and picks up some of the family/house stuff. What were the discussions prior to getting pregnant the second time?

I'm also not THAT senior and thankfully late meetings are not expected but I have a lot of travel and I am one of the most senior parents on our current school run (I have a couple of colleagues who have DCs at the same school and most of the others are in office based roles or else service/HCP, though the latter include some hospital doctors and GPs).

I am like @CookieDoughKid in that DH and I swap about home and office days (for him) or travel days (for me). So, today I am in the office and if needed DH could pick up the DCs from holiday club and I could work late (in fact, I don't need to today so I'll finish off a couple of jobs after the DCs are in bed). But when I am overseas for a week he WFH.

We are both part time but that really helps us more with taking the DCs to after school activities than with day to day drop off/pick up.

We considered a nanny when DC2 arrived but in the end went with my workplace nursery and we had a babysitter who did evenings and the odd pick up. We now have a lovely carer who supports DS (who has SEN) at some activities and will also do the odd pickup e.g. I'm away, DS needs to go to Beavers and DD needs to be picked up from after school club and put to bed so she will do one of those.

I couldn't do anything much more senior with two DCs, one with SEN, but DH is going to reduce his hours in the reasonably near future towards retirement.

We have a cleaner for longer than we did, an ironing service, I am more into batch cooking than recipe boxes or ready meals (cooking is relaxing I find) but also have to have the odd Skype call or desperate document tidying session after the DCs are in bed, especially with some of the time zones I work with.

@BertrandRussell that is a sensible alternative - in our case though I'm not that senior, colleagues two or three steps up from me do have manic lives with travel - which means I may decide not to apply for anything more than one step up.

@DropOfffArtiste in our case, I've had more responsibility and travel as DH has been easing into retirement, and while he does occasionally fall into the trap of "have you done X dear" we work well by having delineation around our areas of responsibility - he does swimming and Beavers, I do football and teacher gifts for example.

I worked at a stupidly fast pace all the time which is why i burnt out, despite delegating lots of activities. I was always in the go. Never a moment downtime (including at night - aged 3 my DS1 was still waking 8 times a night (health problems)). Any time I had was used to either work, look after DC, do online shopping etc. And if I had spare minutes, id be planning the next birthday/Christmas/holiday....

I was super organised but it wasn't enough. So I dropped to a 4 day week (a real one) and took the hit in my career progression and salary progression. But i see more of my DC and I actually get to do sport. Ive a got a good job and could ramp it up whenever I choose but right now Im savouring not running in the metro everyday, not having lunch in front of the computer, not answering emails and phone calls every evening.

I've looked at virtual PA before, this company but I decided not to use them at the time. Might be what you need though.

www.buy-time.co.uk/

I’ve read this thread with interest. Last year dh and I both retired from high level careers and our dc are now in their 20s so we are thankfully past this stage in our lives. I note that almost all of the advice is to do with logistics and that is all essential but please don’t forget that there are individual children at the centre of this and it can’t always be reduced to a logistical problem to be solved, certainly once they are school age.

I found primary school the hardest - preschool their needs are largely straightforward and outsourceable and to be frank they have limited ability to express choice or make decisions. Teenagers understand the economic benefits of higher family income so explanation (and bribery) can work. But a 7 year old doesn’t and just wants mummy to collect them from school.

There is no easy or universal solution. You will know your dc best and work out how your family can work. If it’s of any help my rules for myself were:

1. own your decisions. As someone has already pointed out you are in the fortunate position of choosing to work - there are many working mothers without that luxury. So never think of yourself as the victim or passive actor - you chose this role and could choose to change it. This means that you never blame anyone or anything else - you never tell your child that someone/something else is stopping or preventing you from attending the cake sale or sponsored hopscotch or whatever. You tell them you can’t be there. And take the blame and upset if it follows. This is managed in part by

2. build a support network of people who can be there when you can’t. This will not be your dc’s preference but you own the decision remember. You need to be positive and enthusiastic about granny watching the nativity play and you looking forward to hearing about it after. You never suggest that you are upset at missing it. All your dc will recognise is that they and their play have disappointed you - you alleviate your guilt (goes with maternal territory I think) at their expense which comprehensively breaks rule (1). And finally

(3) talk to them. Or more precisely listen to them - it’s their agenda that matters not yours. If you don’t know what their ‘normal’ is how will you pick up that they’re upset. And remember that normal is based on their experience not yours - my eldest came home from her first day at school bursting to tell me that she had a new friend and ‘guess what mummy, her mummy is her nanny, how funny is that’.

Remember, you never offload on them, you never make excuses to them and you never make promises you can’t keep. Apologies for the length of this post but surviving successfully takes more than to do lists and Olympic standard admin and it can be hard to remember that sometimes.

I had my children very late- and had every intention of going straight back to work. I had been working flat out for 16 years when I stopped to have dd. I still remember the world shifting beneath my feet feeling the first morning of maternity leave! It was extraordinary. And the panicky need to go back. And the gradual realisation that it was possible for us to have a different sort of life.

Given the changes to retirement age I'll likely have almost two decades in the workforce once my kids reach adulthood.

I see so many women make drastic changes to their career path for the sake of the few years when their kids are very young.

I don't think there are any easy options here but I do think it's a shame when women ask for support about how to make life easier as a mother with a challenging career that so often the advice some give is - don't bother.

For those who have full on full time careers, especially if your partner does too, have you ever sat down and worked out how much time you both spend at work and how much time you genuinely give to your children (when you are totally concentrating on them and not trying to multi task). I think it’s very sad when people have both day time and evening nannies. No career or bank balance can be worth that surely.

Both DH and I are professionals but since having DS we have chosen jobs and times when I have been SAHM, to ensure we can optimise the time we have for DS. DH has progressed more than me in his career (we work in the same field) but he hasn’t gone as high as he could as that would impact too much on family life. Obviously does mean we are not as well off as some of our colleagues, but we are lucky to still have a reasonable income.

In our profession, as with many, there are fewer women in the more senior positions. Most women who are and have children tend to have partners who have stepped down in their career or are SAHDs (which is very similar to what partners of the male senior people have done)

Hi,

Just adding my 2 cents in if that's ok, as I am not at the senior exec level you are @2yearoldbattler but a Director in a largely male engineering company. I have carved a way through this with being adamant about some home-working, and fortunately my ex (I am a single parent) can pick up evenings to have my DD if I need to travel.

But I do disagree with others that say that it gets easier. I don't think it does, the challenges just differ. For example, my DD is at sec school, and if I am not at home she just watches telly. The same at her Dad's. Her grades have plummeted since going to sec school and not having the after-school/homework club enforcement; and she is just not working. I did think of getting an au pair literally to stand over her and make sure she is revising / doing her homework properly but with 2 houses that makes it difficult. I have no way of getting her in to the habit of studying let alone being there to enforce it. It's horrible - she could have been destined for great things but she may likely be kicked out of her (grammar) school.

If anyone can help / advise on that I'd be really appreciative!

Sigh. I have a tiny garden and love gardening so don't out-source that, but I do have a weekly cleaner. I could not do without her, even if it's because I tidy up the night before she comes.