DH smashed DS's phone

[thiscountryfan]

So yesterday I walked in to the mother of all rows between DH and DS (14).

DS was screaming and raging at DH for stamping on his phone and more than likely fatally damaging it. According to DH, he had discovered DS had been stealing his beers (not for the 1st time), then lied about it, then smirked in DH's face when busted. DH just lost his shit at that point and grabbed the phone (possibly the only item that DS cares about).

DH has since apologised to DS and accepts
It wasn't his finest hour but point blank refuses to pay for replacement/repair - saying he is sick of DS's selfish rude attitude of late and that he needs to learn a lesson.

I'm torn. I certainly don't agree with what DH did (and he knows it) but quite frankly DS has been so utterly horrendous and perhaps needs to
Understand that parents are human too.

My children aren't scared of me. She was 18 at the time and being very rude. Raised four children and had to be a mom and a dad. It was the phone I hit not her. Problem with kids today they dont get disciplined.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought it was immoral for DH to smash it because it was supposedly violent and inappropriate, not because of the monetary value of the iPod. So is your opinion that smashing CDs and books and low cost items is fine but a phone is not? If so, that's not a moral decision, it's purely financial

It’s both. It’s both morally wrong but it’s also worse to say smash up someone’s entire room than to smash a photo frame. It’s a much worse punishment for the poor boy than something of minor value he can replace. That’s why he did it. Because he’s a bully who wanted to cause the maximum hurt possible. If it was purely “rage” he could have smashed a plate or something. He chose this kids probably most valuable possession for a reason.

I’m sure this girl could replace a CD and a book. I doubt the DS will be able to get a new phone out of his own pocket.

It doesn't matter who paid for the phone.
Being a parent doesn't entitle us to inappropriate behaviour.
Disciplining is not losing it. It involves warnings and appropriate consequences to behaviours.
It matters that you're giving mixed messages to the teen in terms of alcohol and apropriate behaviour and control.
Parents model behaviour. You can't expect respect if you don't respect your children.
Teenagers do push your buttons. But you have a choice to behave like them (or worse) or to teach them how to be an adult.

OP, you and your DH need to think very carefully what kind of behaviour you expect from your teen and what is the example you are giving him. Including how you talk to each other, to him and to other people.

He is supposed to push boundaries. You are supposed to keep those boundaries, but in a healthy way.

Now, it's true that adults are not perfect and we also lose it.

Use (mostly your DH) this opportunity to show how to behave appropriately when we mess up too. Show how to apologise properly and take ownership for actions.
Talk to him about what happened, as a family. Find a way to learn and move on in a loving way.

The problem is that the DH smashed the phone in a fit of rage. That’s why it was inappropriate. Because it was not a punishment or a consequence, it was an angry, violent and aggressive reaction by a man who had lost control.

It’s not unreasonable to punish teens or give consequences to their behaviour. Taking away a phone is not unreasonable. Even smashing a phone is not necessarily unreasonable if it’s delivered by an adult who is in control and can give a logical explanation to the child as to why the consequence fits the crime. However snatching an item from somebody and repeatedly stamping on it in a fit of rage, regardless of what that item is or what they’ve done, is not acceptable. It falls outside of the normal range of consequence and discipline in the same way that slapping or pushing a teen in response to them swearing in an argument would be wrong and an indication that you’ve lost control.

The DS’s behaviour deserves to be met with a serious consequence from an adult, an adult who is in control of the situation and able to justify and explain the reason behind the consequence, the behaviour expected and how the DS can earn back privileges lost. Sometimes the consequences for behaviour will be extreme and will involve removing or selling or even destroying a teens property, but if that’s the case it should be somethimg thought out which the parent can justify and explain to the teen.

It’s scary that the DH lost control to the point where he was unable to stop himself from reacting violently and aggressively and destroying an expensive phone without regard for the consequences of his actions. Very scary. It’s not a reasonable way to act towards anybody and it will have been frightening for the DS to see the person who’s meant to instill boundaries reacting completely outside of them.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Both DP and DS behaved badly, both need to be supported to see the wrong in their behaviour, how it effects others and how they can make it right. For DP that would involve replacing the phone like for like, although it might be agreed that DS still needs to earn it back. I’d also think that DS has lost the privilege of being allowed the odd beer at home until he is much older as he clearly can’t be trusted. I’m sure you will have other reasonable and considered consequences too. It’s okay to come down hard on him, but never okay to come down with aggression and violence.

If it's a one off incident, then an admission that dh overreacted alongside an apology is all that's needed to get back on track. You support dh on the initial misdemeanor without condoning the violence.

Say "dad was right to be angry, given that this is a repeated incident that you knew was wrong, however we all know that it shouldn't have ended the way it did. We all need to learn from this. Dad recognises that he needs to react differently in future but you also need to recognise your part in all this. Let's all reflect on how this situation could have been avoided and ensure that were not in this position again. Let's move on. Ds, we'll replace your phone when you acknowledge that you behaved badly, just as your father has. Next time if you don't follow instructions then the consequences will be x,y and z. We don't want to get to this point again do we, as we all love each other and want to respect each other."

Well, one thing clear on this thread is how wrong the posters are who say that their parents used cruelty to 'discipline' them and it did them no harm.
Guess what: your parents were abusive bullying cunts and you have followed in their footsteps. Violent parents either produce perpetually-scared victims, or kids who want to get big enough to hurt someone else.

Oh, and destroying a teenager's property to punish them is always unacceptable. Doing it in a 'controlled' way is actually even worse than doing it in a tantrum, because that's calculated, premeditated cruelty. It's exactly the same, ethically, as the old-school corporal punishments where the adult would purchase an implement specifically designed for inflicting pain on a child.

@ReanimatedSGB

Exactly. It’s just the cycle of abuse. I had toxic, shitty parents and would never behave the way they did. If I thought I would do then I’d never have kids.

I mean breaking anything in rage is terrible.
Regardless of value.
But a phone to teenagers these days isn’t the same as like, a games console, or their expensive trainers. The phone has bizarrely become an extension of themselves. It’s their innermost thoughts, their photographs , their connections with friends, their diary , their link to support networks, the place to go with the questions you wouldn’t dream of asking anyone else, even their safety. Weird but true.

Guess what: your parents were abusive bullying cunts and you have followed in their footsteps.

No they weren't. I was an abusive bullying cunt to them. They had every right to do what they did.

Lenizar that’s because you have been conditioned to believe that, sadly

They had no right.
Neither do you.

I’m sure this girl could replace a CD and a book

No I wasn't able to replace it, because I was no longer allowed to rebuy that book or CD after they were broken, I was essentially banned from those items until I was an adult.

Sop if a phone is an extension then it makes sense to remove the phone and by smashing it they will learn that there are consequences to their actions.
I assume that all the silly liberals on here would put their child on the naughty step for 10 minutes or use the 'c' word as seems to be popular with those that are unable to express themselves.
It was probably purchased by the family, rather than the child so good luck to the son in saving up for a new one.

They had every right to do what they did.

They didn't. And if your behaviour was abusive towards them, something was terribly wrong to start with in how they educated you.
It's possible to establish boundaries and model appropriate behaviour in assertive and appropriate ways without having to go as far as losing it and breaking your child's property (even if bought by parents).

Smashing people’s things is domestic abuse. It is recognized as domestic violence by authorities because it can have devastating effects.
It’s never acceptable.

Lenizar that’s because you have been conditioned to believe that, sadly

Think what you like. I love my parents, I was an awful teenager who ended up kicked out the house for the behaviour. I did deserve it and I would never dream of hurting them now, not through fear (they aren't scary, never were, but I know I scared them and abused them as a teen) but because they deserve a stress free life until they die.

There’s not one of us that’s perfect OP. Your DH went overboard, totally agree. But it seems your son wasn’t really in the listening mood. I had a health visitor once who explained that sometimes kids push you and push you until you explode, just so they can see where the boundaries are. Your DH has apologised for his actions but stood by his principles. I can see how your son’s behaviour caused him to escalate in that way; even though it wasn’t right.

Well, what’s done is done now. You can’t go back in time, you can only work with what you have so I think the advice you’ve had here about replacing the phone with a cheapy one after a suitable time period is a good one. Hope everything gets better for you all from hereon out.

And if your behaviour was abusive towards them, something was terribly wrong to start with in how they educated you.

No I had severe mental health problems (due to my parents before these ones, they adopted me essentially/I was placed by social services with them) which lead to my behaviour as a teen. It was never their fault I abused them, absolutely none of it.

it makes sense to remove the phone and by smashing it they will learn that there are consequences to their actions.

Removing is not the same as smashing.
And smashing property in a rage is not a consequence of anything.
Nor is smashing in a controlled way.
And particularly not a natural consequence of drinking beer without permission or a smirk.

This is not parenting. It's random violence and revenge.

I'd rather raise a child that knows and understands natural consequences. That can respect me because I respect them, not because I may go off on a rage and damage their property.
If that's being silly, then I'm proud to be silly. Silly all the way, thank you.

No I had severe mental health problems (due to my parents before these ones, they adopted me essentially/I was placed by social services with them) which lead to my behaviour as a teen. It was never their fault I abused them, absolutely none of it.

There you go. Something was wrong in how you were raised.
And how do you think smashing your things helped with your mental health issues?
As I said to OP, we can all lose it sometimes, but it's not something that we should recommend or praise at all. Instead, we should learn from it and improve our behaviour.

There you go. Something was wrong in how you were raised.

But they weren't the ones who raised me wrong. You said it was their fault. They saved me.

The way your DH reacted was wrong, treating bad behaviour with aggression isn’t the answer. However, I can appreciate why he reacted that way. If my teenager lied to me and then blatantly disrespected me by laughing at me about it, it would make my blood boil.

The question is was this a one off? If it’s never happened before then as long as DH and DS sit down and have a grown up conversation and both apologise, it will be fairly straightforward to move on. However if DS regularly lies and knows there are little to no consequences then you have a much bigger issue at hand.

I would buy DS a £5.99 phone and set out clear boundaries at home. For every chore he completes, and for every rule/boundary he abides by I would keep note of and maybe by the end of the month he can have a better phone. Perhaps you could also encourage him to get a part time job at the weekend, so he has some responsibility, and appreciates the value of money.

It is instrumental that DH/DS have a positive relationship before drinking the odd bottle of beer turns into more, and you don’t know about it.

Also why is it OK to call other people's posters parents cunts but if I called you a cunt on here it would break guidelines for being a personal attack or something.

You said it was their fault. They saved me.

Because I was missing crucial information. The point was that your bullying shouldn't have happened in a loving respecting family.

Again, how do you think that episode helped your mental health issues?
Wouldn't you say that it was the loving attitudes at all other times of your second set of parents that did save you? Do you think think that that single episode was the highlight of their parenting?

Again, how do you think that episode helped your mental health issues?
Wouldn't you say that it was the loving attitudes at all other times of your second set of parents that did save you? Do you think think that that single episode was the highlight of their parenting?

Exactly. Loving attitude at all other times. So not bullies, not cunts, not abusive. It wasn't their best moment certaintly, but do I have absolute sympathy with them? Yes. Do I look back on my behaviour as a teen and think how the fuck did they put up with me for as long as they did? Sure. I don't look back and think they were cunts for doing that to me, if anything I just feel bad for pushing them that far because they were usually the most controlled and loving parents, so I knew I was scaring them. I think it helped more, if they just confiscated an item I may have trashed the house until I found it again, snatched it and ran away from home. By breaking it they stopped that behaviour as there was nothing for me to find.