DH smashed DS's phone

[thiscountryfan]

So yesterday I walked in to the mother of all rows between DH and DS (14).

DS was screaming and raging at DH for stamping on his phone and more than likely fatally damaging it. According to DH, he had discovered DS had been stealing his beers (not for the 1st time), then lied about it, then smirked in DH's face when busted. DH just lost his shit at that point and grabbed the phone (possibly the only item that DS cares about).

DH has since apologised to DS and accepts
It wasn't his finest hour but point blank refuses to pay for replacement/repair - saying he is sick of DS's selfish rude attitude of late and that he needs to learn a lesson.

I'm torn. I certainly don't agree with what DH did (and he knows it) but quite frankly DS has been so utterly horrendous and perhaps needs to
Understand that parents are human too.

You don't know what this particular 14 year old is like.

But you do? And the father as well? Pray tell.

“Why are you all portraying this 14 year of as a wide eyed innocent who can do no wrong?”
Literally nobody is doing this. Nobody.

He stole the beer and can't return it in the same state he found it. Your husband took the phone and now can't return it in the same state. Eye for an eye.

Totally not the same thing or comparable.
Was this some sort of special edition beer?
Did the son smash the beer?
Is the value (cash and importance) even remotely similar?
No.
Well...

You don't shoot someone because they looked at you funny.

And provocation in law (quoted earlier) doesn't make the person less guilty.
Fine, the father doesn't deserve to have his phone smashed too. Just confiscated.

I am not excusing the dad, but he did one thing, only one thing, you can not condem people because a total different person did something to you, that is not how justice works.

Leatherflamingle

I'm sorry for what happened to you but you are judging this situation through the lens of your experience. Not every person that has lost their temper is an abusive person. Sometimes genuinely decent people reach the ends of their tether.

Some people who kill are sadistic or psychopathic or evil criminals, some have an uncharacteristic moment of madness some do it in self defence - the outcome is the same for the victim but the motive is very different.

Sometimes good people make a mistake. It's ridiculous to brand this man as being violent, abusive or a potential child beater on the basis of one uncharacteristic mistake.

@mummy2017
It isn’t how justice works.
But identifying patterns in domestic violence from analysing past cases is very important in terms of recognising red flag behaviour.
Doing this helps us to save our children, sisters, friends from abusive relationships.
In most cases where women are killed by their partners (or even in the horror of family annihilation cases) there has been a pattern of escalating events, often beginning with destroying objects, throwing items, breaking things.
Educate yourself.
Look at the cases on Karen Ingala Smith’s blog if need the point reinforced. Counting Dead Women.

I am not excusing the dad

Says the poster that has literally spent HOURS on this thread today telling everyone how the son is to blame. Excusing the dad is EXACTLY what they were doing.

I’d argue that every person who sees fit to smash someone’s phone IS an abusive person. The action makes them one .
I’m sorry you don’t recognise it.
I’ve never smashed anyone’s things. Gosh ...heaven knows I’ve had loads of stress my way, way past the breaking point of lots of people.

Leatherflamingle .

My best friend who as saved from being beat because I spent a month sleeping at her house.
My DD childhood friend, his mum was a victim of domestic violence, to be honest it took months for her to chuck him out, now with nice guy.
I stopped a sadistic person from causing harm to some children.
I seem to attract people who need a friend in real life as I have many times stepped up to help....
I just really think the son caused this to happen .. by in your words totally being a little shit....

Oh @decomposingcomposers, my experience confirmed and reinforced opinions I already held.
I was raised without violence so I was able to recognise it creeping in to my life and name it for what it was.

@mummmy2017
Yes you are a victim blamer.
Go to bed 🛌

but he did one thing, only one thing

One thing that shocked the OP enough to post on MN.

It's not a behaviour that tends to appear out of the blue.

No I believe there is always a reason for everything. There is no black and white, there are shades of gray....
What was done to you was 100% wrong, anyway you look at it...
But if we add the label of abuser to anyone who breaks something , then 90% of the world must wear that label.

You have a scewed view of the world.
I don’t believe that 90% of people go smashing people’s things up when they’re angry.

But the person the mum is saying is out of control is the son, not the dad ....

The dad didn't break a glass he had in his hand as an escape for his rage.
He damaged his son's phone.
Quite different.

Did you also tell your friends they must have provoked their abusers?

But the person the mum is saying is out of control is the son, not the dad ....

The son may well be out of control, but we do have to ask why.
It's often the case that out of control children reflect out of control parenting. But I don't see any evidence of trying to improve parenting on these parents' side.

"I allowed him to drink alcohol in the first place. Shoot me" doesn't seem promising to me.

The mum said they tried but the son has teenage rages and just takes anything he wants...
The dad has never reacted with violence before and she has told him it can never happen again, however I doubt the son will be mending his ways any time soon..
Also the dad did not react with a tantrum at the theft of his beer. But the son had a massive one.

Teenagers have rages and push boundaries.
They are dealing with hormones and testing boundaries. Adding alcohol to the mix at 14 is a lethal cocktail for behaviour.
The dad never played his male violence card before because he didn’t have a challenging 14 year old before. Often domestic abuse begins when the children become teenagers.

While I can see your point about male rage, this boy has also had issues with his mother. It is almost impossible to find a way to engage with a child who is taller stronger and unwilling to compromise.
Just how as OP asked should she proceed.

Also the dad did not react with a tantrum at the theft of his beer.

And you know this how?
All we know is that he ended up destroying his son's phone.

Just that he considered it theft seems like a tantrum to me.

Just that he considered it theft seems like a tantrum to me.

My dd used to "borrow" my clothes without asking, and then ruin them or take my make up without asking - I saw that as theft. Was I being abusive or throwing a tantrum? Or was I actually showing boundaries and what was acceptable behaviour amongst people living in the same house?

It is almost impossible to find a way to engage with a child who is taller stronger and unwilling to compromise.

Have the parents taught him how to negotiate and compromise?
Or have they ordered him about/let him do whatever he wanted before?

They don't seem to mind so much the junk food and soft drinks, just the beer. And not for the alcohol, but theft.
I'd be asking why the dad was so upset specifically for missing his beer.

I still want to know what should have happened, instead of a phone being thrown..

Enlighten me. ..

It was the equivalent of food, not personal items like clothes.