Friend wants her DH to come on all female holiday.

[Oldbutstillgotit]

A few months ago a good friend , Anne, invited me and 2 other friends Barbara and Carol on holiday (These are not real names but I thought it would be easier than ABC etc) .
The background is that Anne has had a terrible few years and has needed a lot of support which we have willingly given. Thankfully she is now much better so decided that she wanted to treat us . She insisted that she was paying for a villa in the sun for a week plus flights . Very generous and we all said it wasn’t necessary but Anne really wanted to do this.
Further information, to avoid drip feed, is that Anne, Barbara and I have known each other for other 30 years since our DC were in Primary School. Anne knows Carol through a couple of interests but Barbara and I have met Carol several times and she has always been pleasant and fun.
Anyway, the villa and flights were booked and everything was fine. Until yesterday. I switched on my phone to a flurry of messages on our WhatsApp group, starting with Carol asking if it is ok if her DH comes on holiday ! Anne replied saying “ very funny, of course not”.
There are then loads of exchanges which are basically Carol saying that she has never been away from her DH for a week , the thought is making her anxious , he would be “ no bother” etc etc . To everything Anne has said no but Carol kept pushing. She even said that if they had the bedroom with the ensuite we would hardly see him !
I contacted Anne to see if she was ok . She was quite upset .
Yesterday afternoon, Anne , Barbara and I met for a coffee to discuss . Both Barbara and I said the decision was Anne’s but neither of us was happy at the prospect of a DH being there as it would totally change the dynamic.
The 4 of us are meeting for lunch later . Anne says she will cancel if Carol persists .
Anyone any suggestions ?

For me what puts it in CF territory is not mentioning not being able to be apart from dh until the trip was arranged and paid for, and then requesting the best room in the villa.

Staying nearby would be awful. Either you'd never see her or it would be endless "Brian hasn't any lunch/trip plans, could he come with us?". Probably looking to Anne to fund their food and excursions too.

You and Barbara need to say to her that the whole point of Anne funding the trip is for the four of you to have a special time together. Taking anyone else would completely change the point of the trip. Letting Anne spend the money without raising the issue first makes her morally responsible for refunding Anne's expenditure or at least making some contribution. Good luck.

Oh god Carol needs a good strong word in her ear. "Hi Carol, just to clarify, this is a girls week away, and your dh is not invited. Obviously I understand if this means you feel unable to no longer attend, however you did initially agree to it, so it is somewhat disappointing that you have let Anne down - both in the potential for waste flights, and by putting her in an uncomfortable situation with your request. Cancellation on the flights is X Date, please confirm by then if you are coming, so Anne can try and reclaim some costs if it's a no".

Im not buying the anxiety!

She allowed Ann to pay for the tickets - she should reimburse Ann if she’s not going

Carol is being unreasonable. Of course her DH will completely change the dynamics and since Anne's paying, it's Anne's decision. I don't think Anne should cancel tho. Just the 3 of you go. I don't like the idea of them staying somewhere else because that will change the dynamic too. She'll always be wanting to get back to her DH because he's on his own, oh can't he join for lunch etc.

It was unreasonable of Carol to accept if she can't travel alone, and totally uncceptable to even suggest her DH comes too. I can't help wondering if Carol is seeing this as just a free holiday, NOT a girls holiday to support Anne. For that reason alone, she should not be going. For Anne's sake you should all suggets just the 3 of you go.

I will come I'm 63 pretty please wheres my oassport--

Could there be something else going on with her physical or mental health which means she needs that support but doesn't want to tell you?

Well if she needs his support she can stay at home and get it, and not ruin three other people’s holiday.

Carol is a CF. She should have mentioned at the outset that she can't/wont travel without her H and refused the holiday rather than foist it on the group at the last minute. But what really seals her CF status is that far from sounding apologetic about it she is (not so subtly) using her "couple" status on the holiday to nab the best bedroom that should be Anne's.

Just tell her that you will miss her but this is girls only.

Carol is being really unfair, why is she only mentioning this now? I think you're all trying to hard to compromise. There's only 2 options, you 3 go as planned or Carol goes away with her husband instead. This is Anne's treat, her break and she doesn't want him there!

*too

Quick update before I get dressed ( still in pjs) . Both Barbara and I have messaged Carol along the lines suggested by several posters . No response.
So many great comments with interesting points of view @StealthPolarBear -.food for thought .
Anne has met the DH - who I will now call Dick - and says he is ok but very loud, a view confirmed by Barbara whose DH knows Dick through golf club.
Anne has known Carol for several years and was unaware of MH issues but of course that doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t exist .

You and Barbara need to say to her that the whole point of Anne funding the trip is for the four of you to have a special time together.

Yes - this is the nub of it. It’s not like you’ve all decided to go to the cinema and she asks if Brian can come because he fancies seeing it too. It’s a special, memorable trip for Anne and the friends she feels have helped her.

There are lots of reasons why Carol might be doing this, and not one of the reasons means that she should get her own way.

1. She's a CF who makes everything about her and likes the drama - No drama just "We're continuing with the holiday as originally planned, let us know if you decide not to come."

1. She's incredibly anxious - you are sorry that she feels anxiety so severe that it limits her ability to live a normal life, however her mental health doesn't trump A's mental health and her need to relax. She doesn't get to make A feel much worse just so that she can feel better.

1. Mr Carol is a controlling shit. You won't ever know this to be the case unless she admits it to you, but even if he is you wouldn't be doing her any favours by giving in to his controlling ways.

I wouldn't let it dominate the whole lunch or suggest any compromises. Offering a slight change to the plan sends her the message that she just needs to keep insisting and you will keep increasing the compromise until she gets what she wants. If she keeps bringing the subject up just say "We're sticking with the original plan, that you knew about when we first booked. We don't think it needs further discussion."

It would do Carol so.much good to come with the three of you without her husband!!!

They just want a free holiday together.
Tell her it's a shame she won't come without her dh, maybe next time.

and says he is ok but very loud,

And this is precisely why men like Dick want to intrude on all female events. Because they want to take over and be in charge. They like the idea of being ‘the man’ in a group of women as they feel they can dominate.

I would really urge you NOT to go with the idea of Carol and hubby staying somewhere nearby. He will muscle in on your holiday.

I don't think it really matters whether Carol's OH identifies as male, female or unicorn. Anne invited her three friends on a holiday that she's paying for. She didn't invite three friends and their +1. If Carol has health problems that make her unable to cope with a week away from her OH, then sh should politely decline the invite. Her choice to explain this is due to her anxiety, or come with another excuse.

A girls holiday is just that a holiday with no men there just like a boys holiday theres no women there

I really dont think Carol suffers from anxiety per se. I think shes anxious because her DH is a loud mouthed bore who will make her life a misery if she goes off for a free jolly and he has to stay at home looking after himself. As this trip is free its not even taking anything out of the household budget so its simply her going away on her own thats the problem here.
Im assuming that as Carol is 60+ then so is he.
She has possibly had very few days away from him over the years because of his previous behaviour on her return. So she is understandably anxious about this trip . She would love to go but....

I do see it from her point of view and if she had started the thread I really doubt the responses would have been dissimilar . She cant go if it also means Dick goes too. Thats the top and bottom of it. The trip is specifically as a thank you to the supporting friends in Annes life. Not Dick and not any other partner.

I also think that if Dick stays elsewhere it’ll be lunch then join us for a few drinks then he’ll be in the pool and before you know it he may as well have stayed

I also don’t like the idea of Ann having paid for the villa gets down graded to the smaller rooms while Carol and Dick take the en-suite room - who does that to the host?

What wasn’t it ‘Can Dick come? He’ll sleep on the dog bed by the pool’

Dear Carol, I'm sorry to hear about your anxiety. I totally understand if you want to pull out of the holiday, nobody wants to put you in a position where you feel uncomfortable. Dick coming along isn't an option as it would change the dynamic of the holiday, it's a girls trip. Maybe we can have a meal together instead?

This reminds me of a scenario that happened a few years ago.
Me and a friend decided we wanted a break (her single me married) so we booked a week long trip to Italy.
When we got there we were sharing a table in the dining room with a mother and daughter. Daughter explained Mum was "On her own and needed a break" and she had reluctantly had decided to go with her as she hated to be apart from her DH, and he had pleaded with her not to go as he didn't want to be apart from her.
At every meal we were treated to a misty eyed "Oh I really miss my DH, its going to be a really long week for me without him"
By night 5 she was snogging in a corner with the Italian waiter (her DM was mortified)
My friend suggested that her DH obviously knew her too well!

"Isn't 'anxiety' usually used to cover unreasonable behaviour?"

@LadyRannaldini - I can't say this is something I have come across myself - I have anxiety myself (not self diagnosed - my psychologist's diagnosis), so I do know how it can affect normal life - and I know that I put on a show of coping, a lot of the time, only letting the mask fall with people I trust. But I also understand that, as there are few obvious signs of anxiety, people could use it as an excuse.

I can understand why Carol is feeling anxious about the trip - I will happily plan things, and then get massive cold feet nearer the time. But there is no way I would impose my dh on a girls' trip/holiday, to help me manage my anxieties - that is completely unfair.

And it's not as if Carol is going to have to do this trip alone, with no safety net - she is going to be with three people who are her friends - and I suspect that, if she could get past her 'I can't do it without dh' mindset, and got to the airport with the other three, she would find that the four of them had a great time, and that her worries were completely baseless.

It's not an exact comparison, but last weekend I went away on my own, to a knitting and crochet festival - Aberdeen Yarnfest. In the run up to the trip, I had lots of anxieties about how I'd cope on my own with the travelling, taxis to the class I was doing and to the hotel etc etc - but I pushed myself to do it, and it was great. It didn't all go entirely smoothly, and some of the things I was worried about did happen - but I coped. If Carol could get herself to the point of going, I bet she'd have a great time, and would come home with a real sense of achievement.

Which is not to say that the trip must become Carol's therapy - that would be selfish of her - I just think that it would be a good side effect of the trip. But the bottom line is that she cannot bring her dh along - it would completely change the trip, and that would not be fair on Anne, in particular, or on anyone else in the group.

Even if the problem is MH issues or a controlling DH, Carol is still being very U and shouldn’t be pandered to on this.

I think that Dick might be the one with the control problem here.