Male view on modern feminism

[aronroche]

I was having a discussion with a friend on what i see as the biggest issues with feminism and i would like a general idea on where women stood in relation to my views.

Firstly I have an issue with the term "rape culture" as I do not believe one exists in modern westernised countries. I understand this term to mean that there is somewhat of an acceptance of rape. I believe that 99 percent of males see rape the same way as women do. An absolute disgusting crime. While it is obviously different in other countries across the world, men in westernized countries do care about the welfare of women and would see a rapist as the lowest of the low.

The second issue I have with feminism is the term white male privalage. I understand women go through hardships I will never understand as a man but that does not mean that males do not have issues that women do not understand. I do not feel I have any advantage in society as a whole simply because im male.

Thirdly I disagree with the idea that a man is completely at fault if he has sex with a girl who is very drunk. Of course if a women is in such a drunken state that she is not conscious or lucid that is rape however if she is willing and knows exactly what she is doing that is on her regardless of how drunk she is. I would like to clarify that when I say this i mean completely willing in that she is not pressured and if she changes her mind the man has to accept her decision.

To finish id like to make clear that I do respect women and support women and the feminist movement as a whole. Im asking these questions not because I see womens issues as bullshit but because id better like to understand other views to my own

You don't sound like you respect women to be honest.

Women tell you there is a problem with rape culture and being pressured into sex, or sexual practices that they don't want, and your response is to say 'no there's not'.

There has been proper academic research carried out on students in the USA where a significant percentage of men said that they would so X,Y or Z when each of those things constituted rape. But because it wasn't waiting for someone in a dark alley with a knife, they said it didn't count.

A quick look at the comments page on a newspaper website or on social media will very quickly show that huge numbers of men think that rape is no big deal and/or rarely happens. And if someone with a high profile is prosecuted for rape, the sympathy lies with him for 'having his life ruined' not with his victim. If that's not rape culture, what is?

You're ignorant as can be. Go read widely for yourself instead of asking women to waste their time dispelling your faulty logic.

I don’t think men’s views on feminism are valid, and your OP reinforces that perfectly. No one cares what your thoughts on white male privilege are

Oh I missed the bit about not having any advantages through being male. That's comedy gold.

When you sit in a car, does the seatbelt sit across your chest or round your neck? Can you get something off the top shelf in the supermarket without having to ask a stranger to reach it down for you? Can you carry your phone in your pocket? Do you have to stand in a long queue every time you need to use a public toilet? Do you attend meetings in work and find you're expected to make everyone a coffee? Have you ever been asked in a job interview who looks after your children whilst you work?

If you genuinely want to understand and aren't just here to tell us we're all wrong (although the tone of your post makes me doubt it) you could try reading 'Invisible Women' by Caroline Criado Perez which will explain just exactly how many advantages you have that you just aren't even aware of.

No one gives a fuck what you think, pal!

I believe that 99 percent of males see rape the same way as women do.

Wrong.

I do not feel I have any advantage in society as a whole simply because im male.

Wrong.

if she is willing and knows exactly what she is doing that is on her regardless of how drunk she is.

Sigh.

To finish id like to make clear that I do respect women

Your post shows otherwise.

Maybe the whole metoo movement passed you by.

Maybe you missed the gym instructor in Edinburgh joking that women should be raped for missing sessions, he was only sacked after all the publicity forced the uni to take action.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/hundreds-sign-letter-calling-edinburgh-16174821

Maybe you missed the Durham scandal too.

thetab.com/uk/warwick/2018/05/08/she-looks-like-a-rape-victim-here-are-even-more-rape-threat-message-from-the-warwick-boys-group-chat-28497

1. The term "rape culture" isn't about the acceptance of rape, it's about society normalising or trivialising sexual harassment and sexual violence. It hurts men and women alike.

1. You can empathise with the experiences of others without living them, you just need to listen. Listening will help you to understand where women face greater obstacles than men, and where you have advantages from being male. It might help you to understand that feminism is empathetic to the struggles of men and also wants to break down restrictive notions of masculinity.

1. You're abstracting way too much here. It's not a tenant of feminism that when a drunk woman has sex with a man the man is to blame. Feminists believe in autonomy: if a woman wants to get drunk and fuck someone who consents to fuck her, she can choose to do that. If a woman gets drunk and does not want to fuck someone who wants to fuck her, she does not have to.

Thanks for enlightening us all.

It’s entirely possible that the men you surround yourself with see rape the same way you do. I believe there are pockets of society where the majority of men believe it is a disgusting crime. But you really need to start thinking a little wider. The Harvey Weinstein shit is probably a great example of where a “rape culture” can exist in western civilisation. Just because you don’t see it in your every day life, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

And as for the drunken rape comments, you’ll never understand it if you make such sweeping generalisations. It’s not as black and white as that. You seem to be suggesting women are claiming that because they were drunk when they had sex, they were de facto raped. Has anyone actually claimed that? You would be better not to form opinions on a whole category of crime, because each particular case will have differences and nuances. Next time you find yourself doubting what a woman is claiming, try and work out why you think she might be lying and go from there.

And unfortunately, the “I don’t have any advantage in society because I’m male” is painful to read. You need to speak to women around you. If you’re single, speak to your sisters, female friends, friends wives, close colleagues. Be open to hearing what they’ll say and they’ll give you their experiences.

I had a similar conversation with my dad recently about race. He's in his seventies and he feels that there is no white privilege because we all have problems.
As I said to him, the fact that you can comfortably say you don't see a problem is literally part of the privilege. He's lucky to not have to have ever dealt with problems due to colour, sexuality or sex. And wrong to think that others don't have the issues

Yay, mansplanation for feminism.
Awesome.

I know right? Feminism is so much more palatable when those uppity women just STFU. They're always complaining when men "just pay them a compliment" and the way they lead men on? Disgusting.

[hmm}

No one gives a fuck what you think, pal!

This

That's nice dear.

Have a jammie dodger or three

Jesus Christ- no privilege! Seatbelts that don’t fit, medication suited to a man 15kg heavier, restricting access to birth control and family planning (USA), having to be sweet and nice and kind and think of the poor menz with their poor hurt feelings... the list goes on and on.

@isabellerossignolI have complete respect for women and i think I never treat women right. I was raised by my grandmother who is the most important person in my life so your completley wrong in that regard.

I said that i think its wrong if a woman is pressured into having sex what i disagree with is the idea that most men are raping women and its accepted in life. Obviously there are men who dont treat women right but for the majority of men i know personally wouldn't allow a man to force himself on a girl in a party or bar or whatever. My point is that i know women have to deal with crap all the time but the majority of us are good people who dont agree with a woman being forced to do anything she is uncomfortable. If a famous athlete is being accused of rape i dont automatically assume guilt and let the jury decide. If hes guilty he deserves a harsh punishment but if found innocent i have faith in the justice system. When a guy is accused of rape and he is genuinley innocent it ruins his life also.

Go listen to the audiobook/read Natasha Walter's "Living Dolls", Aron.

You're wasting your time to be honest. Even if you are genuinely willing to listen and learn, the majority on this site won't be willing to give you the time of day. Look at some of the responses you've had already.

@Gingerkittykat I know theyre are men who treat women horribly but i think that generally that is not the case and men do not accept when sexual abuse occurs to women.

I'm not racist. I have a black friend.

And how is it mansplaining for a man to ask questions about feminism, giving his opinion first for context?

“found innocent i have faith in the justice system”
di you know what the conviction rate for rape is? Do you think all raped women bring charges?

When a guy is accused of rape and he is genuinley innocent it ruins his life also.
Do you think there are many false accusations?

@aronroche Most men do outwardly say (And may well mean) they abhor sexual violence. Have a look for the insidious comments many make about women though in a sexual way. It's more complex than your e thinking.

This was written in 1975. I found it a clear statement of affairs as a teenager off to uni in 1987.

It is all still true now, in 2019.