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Male view on modern feminism

135 replies

aronroche · 12/06/2019 02:08

I was having a discussion with a friend on what i see as the biggest issues with feminism and i would like a general idea on where women stood in relation to my views.

Firstly I have an issue with the term "rape culture" as I do not believe one exists in modern westernised countries. I understand this term to mean that there is somewhat of an acceptance of rape. I believe that 99 percent of males see rape the same way as women do. An absolute disgusting crime. While it is obviously different in other countries across the world, men in westernized countries do care about the welfare of women and would see a rapist as the lowest of the low.

The second issue I have with feminism is the term white male privalage. I understand women go through hardships I will never understand as a man but that does not mean that males do not have issues that women do not understand. I do not feel I have any advantage in society as a whole simply because im male.

Thirdly I disagree with the idea that a man is completely at fault if he has sex with a girl who is very drunk. Of course if a women is in such a drunken state that she is not conscious or lucid that is rape however if she is willing and knows exactly what she is doing that is on her regardless of how drunk she is. I would like to clarify that when I say this i mean completely willing in that she is not pressured and if she changes her mind the man has to accept her decision.

To finish id like to make clear that I do respect women and support women and the feminist movement as a whole. Im asking these questions not because I see womens issues as bullshit but because id better like to understand other views to my own

OP posts:
IfNot · 12/06/2019 08:57

Men cannot have children
Well yes, some men are firing blanks. The others though..it takes a man' and a woman to make a baby. Men have children. Oh, and by the way, lots of men have children (which they choose to do by having sexual intercourse, which makes babies btw) and don't ever financially support them.
Quite a lot of men actually.
And then the mothers are forced to take the unnatural step of going to work to provide for these men's children.

I know.
But I expect you know of lots of men whose exes are bleeding them dry and spending all the child support on handbags, eh?
It's quite fascinating actually how many men live in a sort of parallel universe to us. They just seem to absorb a set of rigid opinions aged about 17 and just march around life knowing everything about everything with their hands over their ears going "lalala" every time a woman tries to show them how their version of the world is entirely set up for their comfort and convenience.

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 12/06/2019 08:57

*sabellerossignol i dont see any issues with porn as long as its consensual which alot of it is. You cant say that because someone watches porn they think anything less of rape

Offs Angry

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 12/06/2019 08:59

I admire all you women taking the time and energy to talk to this man.

I’d really rather stick a rusty fork in my eye.

COMPLETELY CLUELESS.

ElizaPancakes · 12/06/2019 09:01

Hi Aaron!

I don’t care what you think.

HTH.

Go and troll elsewhere.

Maitairiki · 12/06/2019 09:02

You can fuck right off. My husband wanted our children not me. I had them after emotional dramatics that would put a pan to cast to shame. Despite that guess who does all the shit emotional work? Me. And the sick days? Me. And all the other shit. Me. Guess who has a career tht wasn’t impacted and earns more. Hint, not fucking me! And if he soda off with a younger more career minded woman who gets shafted? Me. So take your white male privilege and piss off!

BertrandRussell · 12/06/2019 09:03

Yep. His response to my list was enough. Doesn’t want to listen, isn’t interested in learning or even properly engaging. Life is, frankly, too short.

Maitairiki · 12/06/2019 09:05

I agree Bertrand

HumberElla · 12/06/2019 09:05

When a guy is accused of rape and he is genuinley innocent it ruins his life also.

You’ve expressed this a couple of times. It is a myth. Men who are accused or who are found not guilty at trial do not have their lives, careers or opportunities disadvantaged in any way. Whether they are innocent or not make no difference.

Donald Trump seems to be doing pretty well for example.

TooTrueToBeGood · 12/06/2019 09:05

If i ever have a child and my partner wanted to work id fully supprt that

And there you have it - a perfect everyday example of male privilege in action. You would fully support her, how nice of you. Ask yourself this, why should she be dependent on you as the final arbiter if this was a fair and equal society? Yet the reality is the woman is almost wholly at the mercy of the man as to whether she can continue her career as she wishes or not.
Sadly, it is the rule rather than the exception that a woman is dependent on the good grace of the man after starting a family as to whether she can pursue her career goals. Now consider the position for the average man. Most of them wouldn't even think to consult their partner, not in any meaningful way.

GiveMyHeadPeaceffs · 12/06/2019 09:15

Wow @aronroche your response to @BertrandRussell just made me stop reading the thread. Start actually reading the responses and maybe educate yourself rather than arguing further. I don't think my DP is particularly enlightened about feminism but he's a shining beacon compared to you.

I'm done.

CostanzaG · 12/06/2019 09:17

Oh OP you are so fucking clueless is embarrassing.

Men and women have children. What you mean is women give birth to children.
The paternal bond is every bit as important as the maternal bond. The idea that men should go out and provide is a societal construct.

You'd support your future wife if she wanted to work.. oh how lovely 🙄
You do know it's not your decision to make and you don't get a say? Women's careers aren't hobbies and something we do because we're bored. They're every bit as important as men's so quit with the whole patronising ' I'd support her'

S1naidSucks · 12/06/2019 09:18

Besides the obvious shit coming from the OP, I’m just sitting here chuckling at the irony of a man coming on here to mansplain to women, what mansplaining means. 😆

curiositycreature · 12/06/2019 09:22

I hate the word “mansplaining” and think it is widely overused, but this guy really does offer the best example of why it is needed. His mansplaining of the word mansplaining is textbook.

aronroche · 12/06/2019 09:25

Right this will be my last post regarding this. I'm surprised by the amount of people who responded but I'm also surprised by the general response it self. I've most people telling me to fuck off and keep my opinions to myself and rest telling me every one of my responses it just an example of "white male privilege". I literally conceded that I may be ignorant how often rape cases are found not guilty and was told again that's white male privallage. Hardly any responses even trying to see where I'm coming from as i see things. Me expecting people to see my point of view is probably just white male privallage again. I have people who clearly don't know me telling me that I Cleary have no regard for women when if you knew me youd realise how ridiculous that is. When one of my responses is that men have issues aswell which don't affect women the response was cry me a river. I have women telling me I'm clearly not a feminist when I disagree with their point of view when equality for people regardless of their sex race or sexuality is very important to me. I responded to a comment on why I thought it's usually women who stay at home with kids and was mocked in my response. I wrote the original post because I do have my opinions and thought posting on this site might give me a better insight into what I thought. Every point I made was basically shot down with no reasoning at all. I was told by a guy that prostitution is wrong but if I brought that up I bet I would be told a woman's right to do with her body isn't up to any man. I didn't try to offend anyone at all and even agreed with points that were being raised but still only labelled as a sexist. I know that this post is going to be met with sarcasm and labelled as an example as white male privallage. I believe that women think men are completely at fault in the male female relationship in society and don't see themselves at fault in any way

OP posts:
HumberElla · 12/06/2019 09:29

i believe that women think men are completely at fault in the male female relationship in society and don't see themselves at fault in any way

It’s slipping.

FlorencesHunger · 12/06/2019 09:29

Op you are wrong, rape culture is more insidious than simply men running around raping women. It is not like that.
Media promote the sexualisation and domination over women. These messages are ingrained into society.

Check out 'just the women' report which was part of the Levenson enquiry. It's enlightening and explains how media is a massive contributor and no friend of women. Sure it was aimed at changing the standards of which the media report but in effect nothing has really changed.

You have your opinion on white male privelage but I suggest you do your research and open your eyes.

No one is saying be ashamed of being a white male or even male. That isn't what feminism is about. It's opening your eyes and recognising the inequalities of society and what part you can play to make it better.

lottiegarbanzo · 12/06/2019 09:30

OP you got your title wrong. The subject of your thread is not 'male view on modern feminism' it is 'male declaration of ignorance on modern feminism'.

TooTrueToBeGood · 12/06/2019 09:31

Your opening paragraph in your opening post claimed that you "would like a general idea on where women stood in relation to my views".

In your closing post though, the truth comes out: "Me expecting people to see my point of view....."

You had no intention of understanding womens POV, you just wanted, and expected, them to validate yours.

You're a cliched embarrassment.

CostanzaG · 12/06/2019 09:33

The reason you've had no responses trying to see things your way is because you have offered up an opinion based on little or no evidence.

You haven't taken the time to research properly but feel your uninformed options carry weight against actual evidence and lived experience.

Instead of trying to understand you still insist you are right.

You have some deeply ingrained misogyny - which isn't entirely your fault but you need to recognise this and address it instead if trying to justify it.

bee222 · 12/06/2019 09:33

ugh... haven't you got an MRA meeting to attend or something?

You - a man - have come into a women's space to tell women that rape culture does not exist.

The man who raped me stood up in court and said he did it because "I thought she would like it", he looked confused and couldn't answer when the judge asked him how he would feel if someone had that attitude to the women in his family - so don't come in here telling women that rape culture does not exist.

You don't like the term white male privilege, but that is exactly what you have demonstrated in this post.

curiositycreature · 12/06/2019 09:34

@aronroche please please please learn to listen to women. I don’t care if you want to be seen as a feminist or not, you’ve shown some real ignorance, lack of understanding and an unwillingness to listen.

Earthboundmisfit79 · 12/06/2019 09:36

I was having a discussion with a friend on what i see as the biggest issues with feminism and i would like a general idea on where women stood in relation to my views.

Ok, off we go....

Firstly I have an issue with the term "rape culture" as I do not believe one exists in modern westernised countries. I understand this term to mean that there is somewhat of an acceptance of rape. I believe that 99 percent of males see rape the same way as women do. An absolute disgusting crime. While it is obviously different in other countries across the world, men in westernized countries do care about the welfare of women and would see a rapist as the lowest of the low.

Yes, I agree that 99% of men would say they think rape is a disgusting crime. However, while we still have cases where a woman's choice of underwear is used to defend a rapist, we're getting no where. You don't find that in male assault cases do you? "Weeelll, the guy was wearing a hoody that said he likes Mohammed Ali, obviously he was asking to have the shit beaten out of him" And this is the system of justice you believe in, and think works? That a style of underwear implies consent to sex in law?

The second issue I have with feminism is the term white male privalage. I understand women go through hardships I will never understand as a man but that does not mean that males do not have issues that women do not understand. I do not feel I have any advantage in society as a whole simply because im male.

The term white male privilege doesn't take anything away from male struggles, don't worry! As a white woman I have an advantage due to my colour, and a disadvantage due to my sex. As a white male you have an advantage due to both. Read the above answer for an example.

Thirdly I disagree with the idea that a man is completely at fault if he has sex with a girl who is very drunk. Of course if a women is in such a drunken state that she is not conscious or lucid that is rape however if she is willing and knows exactly what she is doing that is on her regardless of how drunk she is. I would like to clarify that when I say this i mean completely willing in that she is not pressured and if she changes her mind the man has to accept her decision.
There's a reason why it's illegal to serve someone more alcohol when they're already drunk - because of the effect it has. If you're going to have sex with someone drunk, do you stop to think about how capable they are of consent at that moment? There's a lot of things you can't do while drunk, or give permission for, because your capabilities are diminished so 'knowing exactly what she's doing' and being 'very drunk' in the same statement doesn't make sense, being very drunk should immediately cast doubt on anyone knowing what they're doing, and that includes men.

To finish id like to make clear that I do respect women and support women and the feminist movement as a whole. Im asking these questions not because I see womens issues as bullshit but because id better like to understand other views to my own

But you're not understanding, or even debating. You're telling women who have replied why they're wrong. Over and over.

curiositycreature · 12/06/2019 09:37

To all the other posters... this has made me really sad!! I’m not particularly outspoken about these issues, but every time something has needed to be said, the men I’ve spoken to have calmly listened and understood. I’ve never been met with such blatant backlash before. Please tell me this isn’t common in your experiences?

Beachcomber · 12/06/2019 09:37

If Toy Story 4 had a Mansplaining White Privilege Ken doll, when you pulled its string it would sound exactly like this underthinking drivel.

Hah! So true, DeptfordDervish.

Again male privilege in action - a bloke posting mediocre unoriginal sexist ideas which are about as subtle as a brick and soaked in cultural hegemony thinking that he's got something interesting to say to women about sexual politics.

These sorts of threads are always the same and always a depressing reminder of how our lives are considered nothing more than a 6th form debating subject to so many men.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 12/06/2019 09:38

Hardly any responses even trying to see where I'm coming from as i see things. But we haven't come on your male based forum trying to explain to you why you men are all wrong headed.

The onus is on you to understand us. Isn't that why you're here? Or maybe because you wanted us to tell you how insightful you are and your friend is wrong, as you're such a modern, empathic man who is totally a feminist except for where women are wrong.

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